A few suggestions...

[manloc]

I find no logic that we arrive to Relto after our avatar creation...
Instead, we should arrive to The Cleft, right?

There are three versions of The Cleft:

• Version 1: Before the pillars (the arid desert).
• Version 2: After the pillars (the arid desert).
• Version 3: Tomahna (rainy desert).

Suggestions (Part 1):

- After our avatar creation, we arrive next to the fence, at the beginning of The Cleft (version 1).

• Atrus's glasses are available.
• We activate Yeesha's first message (clftYeesha_IntroSp02_eng).
• In the tree, we get the Relto book and perform the link.

- The Relto:

• The 4 hydrants (+ log) are there.
• After the pillars, the starry fissure brings us back to The Cleft.

- The Cleft (version 2 part 1):

• We fall close to the Riven's remains.

I think it's implausible that we perform a link using a hologram book, or that we get a Relto page using another hologram...

Suggestions (Part 2):

- The Cleft (version 2 part 2):

• Zandi's shirt is available.
• Validation of the right symbols on the imager activate Yeesha's second message (tmnaYeesha_FinalSp01_eng), but it doesn't give us the book (the message stops at 02:31).
• In the tree, we get The Cleft hydrant Relto page and a Bahro makes us perform a link.
(Then, in Relto, the starry fissure is closed and the 4 hydrants (+ log) are replaced by The Cleft hydrant.)

- The Cleft (version 3):

• We arrive to the office and Yeesha's third message (tmnaYeesha_FinalSp02_eng) is displayed (hologram version).
• The horizontal imager isn't working but the rain Relto page is placed next to it.
• When we get out of The Cleft using the scale, the animation is displayed.

- The Relto:

• Option 1:
- We must return to The Cleft (version 2 or 3) by using his hydrant book to add it to our library.
• Option 2:
- The Cleft book was added to our library when his hydrant appeared. - The hydrant can't be open.
• Option 3:
- The Cleft book was added to our library when his hydrant appeared. - When we open the hydrant, we don't see the book, but the rain Relto page (then it isn't placed next to the horizontal imager of the version 3 of The Cleft) and if we get it, the hydrant closes the next time we perform a link and can't be reopened.
• Option 4:
- The Cleft book was added to our library when his hydrant appeared. - When we open the hydrant, we don't see the book, but a new content related to The Cleft...

There is a problem with these suggestions: We can't quickly access the calendar Relto page.
At our first arrival to Relto, we get a hood book in which we can get the islands Relto page...

Suggestions (Part 3):

• The calendar and islands Relto pages are swapped.

[Ehren]

I don't think it should be changed to have you start at the Cleft. There is an important reason why it was changed to Relto in the first place.

MOUL has you start at Relto so that you don't have to go through the Cleft journey to get to public places (it lets you meet other people faster). Even though finishing the Cleft first to get to Relto works better logically, it was changed to help fit an online format.

It has opened up the possibility for messing with the Journey logic, like being able to put in the final imager code before even finishing the Cleft and without getting any Bahro Cave pillars. But I think it was still a sensible change to avoid frustrated new players just not getting where all the people are and quitting at the Cleft...


I don't see what's wrong with Yeesha's hologram book and hologram page. I think it's fancy!

The very first Myst game had a linking book that you only saw on a little circular screen, and IT let you link.

[Annabelle]

I second Ehren on that.

Landing on an online game...alone...in a desert with no idea what so ever what you are doing is kind of unwelcoming. URU:CC is built in its way because we don't need or won't even meet anyone. Some illegal shards might start there as well, I can't tell more.

MOULa and all the OS shards get you real quick on the "meeting new people" mode. You can grab your KI in less than 2 mins and communicate easily with all the other explorers. You can always go in the Cleft first too...

I remember in March 2010 when I entered the first time MOULa. I went directly to the Cleft and solve it. I was used to do it like that. I learned after a while that we could grab our KI elsewhere (modified version of Gahreesen) and all the other stuffs.

Ehren wrote:

It has opened up the possibility for messing with the Journey logic, like being able to put in the final imager code before even finishing the Cleft and without getting any Bahro Cave pillars.

"the possibility for messing with the Journey logic"...yes exactly. Often (if not always...) I 1st enter the Cleft not to bring back my 4 bahro pillars but to reach K'veer. Then I come back later way later to bring back my 4 bahro pillars.

[Mac_Fife]

This isn't really a Minkata shard specific topic so I'll maybe move it at some point.

I don't think I can address all of manloc's suggestions (they need more consideration than I really have time for tonight), but as Ehren has commented, there were reasons for changing the starting point to use Relto instead of the Cleft. I believe the Gametap influence was significant - they wanted to get people into a multiplayer environment as soon as possible. It's a reasonable expectation for something pitched as a "MMO" game. I think Cyan's initial idea though had been to use the Cleft as a "training ground" to get you used to what you were expected to do and allow Zandi to give you a couple of hints if needed; an orientation age as it were. Maybe it was thought of as a "bridge" from the single player Myst games that had gone before it. Dunno.

But the Relto start, for someone coming in completely cold, still leaves a sort of 50:50 position on whether or not the player ends up using the book in the hut, or the book in the pedestal. And even if you go to the hood, you could easily end up still wondering where the other people are. I wonder if that's potentially more confusing - it's hard to put myself in the position of that "new player" now, but I do know that the whole instancing thing can be completely bewildering to people.

Some considerable time back, teedyo started the Where to Begin thread that proposed a completely new start point, to try to work around the deficiencies of the two current options. After 120+ posts I don't think that thread actually arrived at any concensus (the last few posts in the thread are maybe drifting into another topic).

[manloc]

I think Cyan's initial idea though had been to use the Cleft as a "training ground" to get you used to what you were expected to do and allow Zandi to give you a couple of hints if needed; an orientation age as it were.

That's also what I think...

For the hologram book and Relto page :
In "Myst", there are prison books...
When someone use one of these books, he get into it and the prisoner get out of it.
I've heard that the idea of these prison books was something like a "first idea" and been use for the game ; but at this moment Cyan Worlds don't know there will be some other Myst games in the futur...
And now, they have acknowledged that they does a mistake...
My think for the "Myst" hologram book, and then for The Cleft imagers book and Relto page, is that Cyan Worlds does another mistake.

It's just my think, not necessarily the reality.

But if we really can perform a link by touching a hologram, imagine what we'll be able to do with other things in open source Uru...

Edit:
I've forgive 2 things...
The Cleft version 1 :

• The imager Journey Cloth is already showing up.
• The eagles Relto page : mustn't be available here, but in the version 2.

[PeterC]

I'm one of the lucky player that saw the Live version in '06. It originally did start in the Cleft, which follows the proper story line of the game: you are from Earth drawn to a place in New Mexico I believe it was, and find the Cleft which leads you into Relto and D'ni. I understand it reason for changing that, but I believe that new player will not understand the storyline if they start in Relto. I mean, how did they get those books on their hips? Do they know that the Cleft is on Earth? There are players in MOULa that have not seen the books or other games or even the stand alone version of URU. If there were an option before the games starts and after avatar creation of whether the player wanted to start inn the Cleft or jump to where they can join people, I think that might satisfy everyone.

[Lyrositor]

There's already Yeesha's intro. IIRC, it explains a few things.
I personally didn't have any problems understanding what was going on, after I got my bearings a bit. It seemed logical for me to start in my home base, and not some deserted place. Otherwise, I can just play the offline version of Uru. This method, of starting in Relto to get your KI quickly, allows me to instantly find help for the (admittedly) complicated puzzles already present in the Cleft.

[manloc]

I'm one of the lucky player that saw the Live version in '06. It originally did start in the Cleft, which follows the proper story line of the game: you are from Earth drawn to a place in New Mexico I believe it was, and find the Cleft which leads you into Relto and D'ni.

I also was there in '06.

I understand it reason for changing that, but I believe that new player will not understand the storyline if they start in Relto. I mean, how did they get those books on their hips? Do they know that the Cleft is on Earth? There are players in MOULa that have not seen the books or other games or even the stand alone version of URU.

I agree with this.

If there were an option before the games starts and after avatar creation of whether the player wanted to start inn the Cleft or jump to where they can join people, I think that might satisfy everyone.

Good catch!
Perhaps a window with something like:

Is it the first time you are playing a "Uru" game?

Yes / No

If clic on "Yes" Linking to The Cleft.
If clic on "No" Another window :

Where do you want to begin?

The Cleft / The Relto

A clic on a button Linking to (button Âge).

There's already Yeesha's intro. IIRC, it explains a few things.
I personally didn't have any problems understanding what was going on, after I got my bearings a bit. It seemed logical for me to start in my home base, and not some deserted place. Otherwise, I can just play the offline version of Uru. This method, of starting in Relto to get your KI quickly, allows me to instantly find help for the (admittedly) complicated puzzles already present in the Cleft.

I understand some peoples can wants to quickly see other peoples...
But The Cleft is really easy to complete (and quickly).
It's a "training ground" and Zandi is here to help peoples witch don't already knows about "Uru".
But... "MO:UL" is not a meeting place or a "3D Chat/social network"!
It's a game, with puzzles and story in witch we can meet other players and talk with them...
Of course, we can be friend with these players (I have a few ones).
For me, MO:UL is in this order:
1st - A story.
2nd - Puzzles.
3rd - Meet other players.

Edit: And... Why the game manual is not in the installation folder, with a desktop's shortcut?

[JWPlatt]

If there were an option before the games starts and after avatar creation of whether the player wanted to start inn the Cleft or jump to where they can join people, I think that might satisfy everyone.

Good catch!
Perhaps a window with something like:

Is it the first time you are playing a "Uru" game?

Yes / No

If clic on "Yes" Linking to The Cleft.
If clic on "No" Another window :

Where do you want to begin?

The Cleft / The Relto

The new player has no idea about the intent of these questions. There is little difference between this and facing your bookshelf, wondering why there are two books. You would have to explain why it matters if they've played before. If a new player answers yes to the first question (there are reasons why they would), they still don't know what Cleft and Relto are. And in a graphical game, pausing to prompt for an answer is incongruous. Also, you have a question the veteran player has to answer every time. That gets old. The intro video, which plays only once for a new player, does the same job in a more entertaining way - Yeesha's "alone or together" speech. Unfortunately, the intro video will not play until there is Bink support.

For a somewhat more ultimate and perhaps unattainable alternative, see this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11 (Community Project: The Great Shaft)

[Mac_Fife]

Regarding the Cleft/Relto thing, in the introductory video, URULiveIntro.bik (which unfortunately is unlikely to be shown on any fan shard client unless a Bink player replacement can be slotted in) there is a kind of illustration of the "alone or together" paths: About 45s into the video, Yeesha talks about "decisions" and mentions "either alone" over a scene of the single Relto pedestal opening and leading to shots of the Cleft/desert, and then "or together" over a scene of the bookshelf and zooming in to the 'hood book then scenes of Ae'gura with descriptions like "here there are others" and "friends waiting". It's all quite cleverly done, but I suspect the clues and guidance embedded in that is just too subtle for most people to recognize on the very first viewing, when you're maybe eager to get into the game and not really that interested in the "intro stuff that's just slowing you down".