A Planning Thread [Discussion]

Discussions about the OpenUru.org Minkata test shard
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Doobes
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A Planning Thread [Discussion]

Post by Doobes » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:43 am

Anything to which some of us can lend a hand? As you know, we have a community with quite a few skilled programmers. :)
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Re: Adding Fan Content to Minkata -- A Planning Thread

Post by rarified » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:31 pm

Doobes wrote:Anything to which some of us can lend a hand? As you know, we have a community with quite a few skilled programmers. :)
When I know more I'll try to be good about delegating work. I'm currently updating our planning tool JIRA and will put my thoughts there (in sort of a Gantt chart format) so people can see what tasks and order I think should be done. Or correct me on my ignorance ;)

_R
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Re: Adding Fan Content to Minkata -- A Planning Thread

Post by Hoikas » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:40 am

I find Pivotal to be helpful in cases like these.
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Re: Adding Fan Content to Minkata -- A Planning Thread

Post by Doobes » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:39 pm

rarified wrote:
Doobes wrote:Anything to which some of us can lend a hand? As you know, we have a community with quite a few skilled programmers. :)
When I know more I'll try to be good about delegating work. I'm currently updating our planning tool JIRA and will put my thoughts there (in sort of a Gantt chart format) so people can see what tasks and order I think should be done. Or correct me on my ignorance ;)

_R
See, this to me says you could definitely use some help. It's certainly not fair for one person to have to do all that when we have others in the programmer pool who can easily assist. Plus, since you do this in your spare time (which I imagine is sparse), being able to pass things along to others could speed up the process considerably. Plus, if the maintenance of the tools requires so much work, perhaps alternatives should be considered.

It's what open source is all about...or at least that's what they tell me. ;)

The point is it's been several years now. Gehn Shard is nearly ready to release the 25th version of their client. The Open Cave, while it's slowed down recently, has been updated considerably as well. Both have fan Ages and have had them for years.

This may sound a bit harsh, but It's time to stop saying what we'll do and just start doing it...because the work has already been done elsewhere, and quite effectively too.
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Re: Adding Fan Content to Minkata -- A Planning Thread

Post by Treehugger » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:56 am

Hoikas wrote:I find Pivotal to be helpful in cases like these.

Ooh, being nosy has paid off - I've just seen something interesting about the Gehn anniversary marker quest ;) :D :lol:
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Re: Adding Fan Content to Minkata -- A Planning Thread

Post by Doobes » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:18 pm

Treehugger wrote:
Hoikas wrote:I find Pivotal to be helpful in cases like these.

Ooh, being nosy has paid off - I've just seen something interesting about the Gehn anniversary marker quest ;) :D :lol:
Shhhh...spoilers. :P

Also, if you ever wanted an inside peek at the inner workings of Gehn shard and the GoW's work, visit their IRC channel. It's not always a flurry of activity, but when it is, it's quite interesting watching (or more accurately, reading) them work.
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Re: Adding Fan Content to Minkata -- A Planning Thread

Post by rarified » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:11 pm

Doobes,

It's not just programming tasks, there's infrastructure (which I don't have anyone versed in Solaris administration to help) and policy thinking as well.

I will post here when I start identifying programming tasks. Trust me, that's why I started the thread. (I know, "Trust me" is overused :roll: )

_R

[rarified goes back to fighting GNU automake to build updated Crowd Apache access module for updated Apache server to fix Apache hangs on the foundry.]
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Re: Adding Fan Content to Minkata -- A Planning Thread

Post by Doobes » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:28 pm

rarified wrote:Doobes,It's not just programming tasks, there's infrastructure (which I don't have anyone versed in Solaris administration to help) and policy thinking as well.
You make it sound like you're forming a company.

[begin rant]

In my humble opinion, it sounds like you're making this far too complicated than it should be. We don't need a CEO, executive board, shareholders, etc. We are a loose amalgam of programmers and content builders who do this for free in our spare time. Overthinking and over-complicating the situation only slows the whole process down. It's not a good sign that new fan clothing (GoWiz) was able to make it into MOULa recently by simply bypassing OU and Minkata completely.

From what I've seen, having to think and rethink this process has caused OpenUru.org and Minkata to fall far behind the other shards in terms of progress. This is why you have gotten people suggesting a switch to a H'uru-based client. I have seen others here suggest alternative tools and methods to make the job flow easier, but for some reason, OU has either not taken that into account yet (the dreaded business phrase: "We'll look into it") or has flat out ignored it. It has been proven in at least two instances (Gehn and The Open Cave) that those methods produce results. I know it's easy to play favorites and stick to your guns, but in the case of open source, you need to go where the wind takes you.

As for adhering to Cyan's guidelines, that's all well and good, but we can't be afraid to jump ahead a bit and take risks; break some things and get proper logs to see where it went wrong so it can be fixed and progress can be made. Minkata was meant to be a testing ground, yet there have been no truly significant tests to see just what we can do with it. So what if we crash the server or break the vault? If it leads to a more stable software that we can ship off to Cyan and get into MOULa, then that's progress!!

To sum up, Cyan has put the keys to the house in your hands, but you've essentially blocked the door so people can't enter and exit freely while the house is remodeled. This cannot be done by one person...period. It's time to bury past arguments and hurt feelings, let in all the voices in the URU programming community, and truly start to get to work on this.

[end rant]

Again, I apologize if all this seems very brusque, but it HAS been years since all this first started with very little progress on adding content. The future of MOULa is at stake here. If we want the game to continue to stay open, it needs fresh material (along with a working account creation system...but that's another matter ;) ).
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Re: A Planning Thread [Discussion]

Post by Mac_Fife » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:39 pm

Mod Note: The posts above have been split from Adding Fan Content to Minkata -- A Planning Thread
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Re: A Planning Thread [Discussion]

Post by Marten » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:05 pm

Doobes, you're not the only one that feels this way. I appreciate that you're sharing your thoughts here rather than festering about it elsewhere.

I think you've touched on this: OpenUru feels like it's trying to do things "by the book", while content developers are just trying to find the path of least resistance.

Rules and processes generally develop out of perceived needs, not out of a desire for power and control (although that can be the end result). We should routinely challenge ourselves and ask "Do we really need this step in this process? Can we simplify? What are the risks if we don't have this particular check and balance? Is it OK to fail 1% of the time if it means we can deliver 50% faster all the time?". Follow Principles of Lean.

I believe a lot of what OU does, it does because of a perception that "We're trying to do it the way Cyan does it" and therefore "Cyan must want it that way." And that may indeed have been the case when OU first came into being. We can't assume that Cyan's position on this has remained static. It should be re-evaluated. That Chogon deployed new content without involving OU seems sufficient evidence.

But Cyan is also a busy company, and so we're also sometimes stuck a bit in the position of trying to read their minds due to lack of communication. So that said, I trust you to appreciate the predicament OU is in when OU thinks they're doing what Cyan wants, but isn't sure.

Where do we go from here? I think we're too mired in the solution space. OU is a solution. It's feels like not all of us, myself included, understand what problem it is trying to solve. If we can get back to "What are Cyan's needs and expectations for delivery of fan content... with the bare minimum of fuss and trouble" then maybe we can all figure out how together we can meet that. While this may feel like "But we've talked this through before and it took forever to button down", well tough, times change and what may have seemed right 10 years ago may not be right today.

OU can still be relevant in today's world if it's willing to adapt, and stay true to its original premise - that it is here to facilitate open development of Uru, to serve Cyan and the community together... not to be a benevolent standards dictator. In my opinion, OU members that are not actively involved in developing content should stay out of developing policy and let Cyan and the content creators work that out among themselves.
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