Another Choice in Addition to Relto

[Whilyam]

I'd be perfectly fine with keeping Relto just as it is. These are just the best ideas I saw for replacing Relto.

And I see that I've been loose with terms. By "Replacing" Relto, I mean replacing it for those who don't want to follow Yeesha/use Relto. NOT replacing Relto in the entire game.

We can, like, put a big door or something at the beginning that requires a KI to open. That way you still have to get your Relto book first. (There are KI devices all through the Myst V Descent, and it's logical that the D'ni would have put something up after Anna showed up to allow only D'ni into the Descent.)

I was thinking maybe that you start in a single-player cleft, and the only way to get far into Descent is a multi-player puzzle or thing (such as helping each other over the fence or something). Your door works too. It would be logical for the D'ni to put in something even before Anna showed up, but she came through a different opening, right (not through the volcano)?

Okay, two things. 1: all evidence so far shows that there is, nor never was, a door or any obstacle placed by the D'ni. 2: multi-player puzzles should not be used. They were one of the things most frequently argued over in MOUL and have a track record of being unsuccessful. Single player puzzles with multi-player making it EASIER (think Gahreesen's power room) would be great.

Okay, but "I've used up my lifeline" is followed by "the book dropped to the ground". "The book dropped to the ground" is followed by "someone or something has to keep gathering or destroying all these books". My IC explanation itself is creating the problems.

Not particularly. Anymore that you have to assume someone's cleaning up the cones or firemarbles or rocks when they fall off the edge of a cliff.

Big Choices™ have been a staple of most of the Myst endgames, and frankly, they've never been that well done.

I didn't say Myst, I said Uru ("this game"). Uru was and is advertised as letting you shape the story by your actions. Prologue seems (to me) to have done that well. The community reaction to Sharper allegedly elevated his importance in the story indirectly leading to things like the Kahlo Pub's opening and the Egg Room's openings. Certainly, those things were going to be released, but how and when were what players decided. Perhaps, without Sharper, the Pub would have been released in fully-restored form. etc.

It's not so much "Big Choices" as "A Choice". How one experiences the game can take different angles. The "D'ni" path with the Rescue Age might not show you everything Yeesha's path does (cloth save spots would be impossible/harder to do with the rescue Age, remember). Right now, there is not even an "easy" or "laughable" choice. I would like to see many branches off of many paths that people can take or re-take as they choose.

[Gehn, lord of ages]

I'd be perfectly fine with keeping Relto just as it is. These are just the best ideas I saw for replacing Relto.

And I see that I've been loose with terms. By "Replacing" Relto, I mean replacing it for those who don't want to follow Yeesha/use Relto. NOT replacing Relto in the entire game.

Don't worry, I knew what you meant. Basically everyone is using that terminology for that. However, I would be okay with keeping Relto even for non-Yeesha followers just as it is. They can role-play in their side by how they react with rewards and how they support DRC or other things.

Okay, but "I've used up my lifeline" is followed by "the book dropped to the ground". "The book dropped to the ground" is followed by "someone or something has to keep gathering or destroying all these books". My IC explanation itself is creating the problems.

Not particularly. Anymore that you have to assume someone's cleaning up the cones or firemarbles or rocks when they fall off the edge of a cliff.

Well, yes. However, there are quite a lot less firemarbles (or cones, stones, etc) suddenly reappearing in front of me (the analog with the books would be sudden disappearance). I'd advise making some system that would reduce the amount of times cones and firemarbles would have to break continuity suchly without huge irrational IC systems having to be set up (as well as keeping it fun - no invisible walls refusing to let me throw cones to their doom, and easy for the computers - I wouldn't trade a little benefit for huge amounts of lag). Here, I'm advising choosing a system that would reduce the amount of times books would have to break continuity while having the smallest and most rational IC systems possible.

[Baron]

The D'ni Historian in me says the KI is for communication not Linking.

I don't have any historians in me, but I got the impression from Uru that the KI was heading toward being an all-purpose device.

• We've seen it used for authentication (door entry in Gahreesen, book access in Nexus)
• It can serve as a (so far, unreliable) flashlight
• It provides coordinate data and records/displays markers, useful for surveying and navigation
• And doesn't its holographic display furnish the interface in Jalak?

I suppose many of these fall under the broadest definition of "communication" -- communicates one's identity to the door, or a view of a dark room to one's eyes -- but really, now. If it was convenient to add more features (such as emergency teleportation) to the device, why would the D'ni prefer to keep them separate?

I acknowledge this possible role for the KI is just one minor possibility in the panic linking discussion at this stage, but it still disappoints me to see us pouncing on every opportunity to limit our thinking.

[Gehn, lord of ages]

I'm going to have to say that the D'ni Historian in me as well is saying that the KI is not for linking. At least, not until we've exhausted other ideas, because there are lots of other options suggested. I just feel that the KI, due to what we know of it, is not the best suggestion.

I suppose many of these fall under the broadest definition of "communication" -- communicates one's identity to the door, or a view of a dark room to one's eyes -- but really, now. If it was convenient to add more features (such as emergency teleportation) to the device, why would the D'ni prefer to keep them separate?

The same reason that iPhones don't (yet) cook our food for us. Perhaps it would be better to say not that "the KI is for communication", but "the KI was designed for communication". It was made to take pictures, be used for authentication, and send messages. Therefore, the D'ni would have some hurdles to combine the two, and it wouldn't be the first natural thought of the designers working on it. It would be questionable whether they would add such a tricky feature (getting lots of tiny books and engineering the KI to dispense them just so) to such a differently purposed machine. Also, few people would need it. The D'ni Ages were safe. The only people heading into harms way were maintainers who had Maintainer Suits (because being able to panic link won't save you in a nova or anything).

I acknowledge this possible role for the KI is just one minor possibility in the panic linking discussion at this stage, but it still disappoints me to see us pouncing on every opportunity to limit our thinking.

The simple fact that we keep debating all these topics even when we think they are minor possibilities shows that we are not entirely pouncing on the opportunities. A lot of discussion is simply us telling each other what ideas we prefer. This often requires us to show more of the negative sides to the minor or not as optimal options.

[Mac_Fife]

I'm tempted to chuck in my tuppence worth here but we should be careful not to turn this thread into a debate on the function of the Ki. It seems reasonable to start a new thread for that quite valid discussion and cross-link with this thread

[realXCV]

Random suggestions:
- Add collisions everywhere the player could fall.
- Ask Yeesha to write an age that could be used instead of the Relto.
- Use Relto even for thoses who don't want to follow Yeesha's path.

(I prefer the third one)

[75th Trombone]

Random suggestions:
- [blah]
- [blah]
- Use Relto even for thoses who don't want to follow Yeesha's path.

(I prefer the third one)

Amen, brotha! Relto is not just for Yeesha-followers. It is of Yeesha, but Yeesha gives it freely to all, not just her comrades.