Cleaning Up Instancing

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75th Trombone
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Re: Cleaning Up Instancing

Post by 75th Trombone »

realXCV wrote:It does no such thing if you use the old layout but the MOUL share book icon takes more place than a simple line on the page.
Ah yeah, I forgot about that. I never played MO:UL that much, only the previous incarnations. But if the biggest obstacle is reverting to the classic, less gaudy Share icon, I think the choice is clear.
So we would have a Linking Book to Relto for every friend whose party we're in? You call that plausible? (Not to mention "usable"?)
Yes. Yes. (Yes.)
Current limitation as I said is: Where do you put that book? … I never said they would be in Relto. And before you think of it, I never said they would be in Nexus.
Well, where else is there? Are we going to create yet another meta-Age used for managing where we go?

And I still don't think that's as practical or plausible as my suggestion. Real Relto books come with the linker, but your stack of them would not. Relto books are established to be one-per-person, but your stack of them would not be. A Relto book is Yeesha's singular gift to you (whether or not you take her side), not something that magically spawns a billion of itself.

It makes much more sense — as much as any of this can be said to make sense — for using someone else's Relto book to do something magical to your own Relto book. It symbolically and practically makes Relto and its Book the center — the hub — of the entire concept of instancing, which is how it's always really been in the first place.
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JWPlatt
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Re: Cleaning Up Instancing

Post by JWPlatt »

I wrote an instancing proposal a while back and posted it on the DRC forums. Once you used a private book in Relto, a book in the hood, or a public book in the Nexus, you stayed within that scope of private, hood, or public age. Plus, you stayed within the original owner's instances of those books no matter what until you went back to a root (Relto, hood, or Nexus). It's a tree structure with three trunks from the root and it has the benefit of pretty much getting rid of the need for all those book symbols.

I'll have to dig it up and put something on the wiki. I'd like to see how it fits with all the other proposals so far.

Oops, already mentioned it once here:
viewtopic.php?p=159#p159

(one hour later)
Here's my wiki entry:
http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title ... nheritance
Perfect speed is being there.
realXCV
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Re: Cleaning Up Instancing

Post by realXCV »

75th Trombone wrote:Well, where else is there? Are we going to create yet another meta-Age used for managing where we go?
In fact, I was thinking of Nexus but I hesitate about it being the right place to have linking books to Reltos.
And I still don't think that's as practical or plausible as my suggestion. Real Relto books come with the linker, but your stack of them would not. Relto books are established to be one-per-person, but your stack of them would not be. A Relto book is Yeesha's singular gift to you (whether or not you take her side), not something that magically spawns a billion of itself.
If I am in a Relto and write a linking book using the standard D'ni method. What prevent that book from working like any other linking book ?
It makes much more sense — as much as any of this can be said to make sense — for using someone else's Relto book to do something magical to your own Relto book. It symbolically and practically makes Relto and its Book the center — the hub — of the entire concept of instancing, which is how it's always really been in the first place.
If you want to convince me don't make the book to look like a computer interface. Clickable spots are ok but scrollbars and dropdown menus are not.
75th Trombone
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Re: Cleaning Up Instancing

Post by 75th Trombone »

realXCV wrote:If I am in a Relto and write a linking book using the standard D'ni method. What prevent that book from working like any other linking book ?
That's an interesting point. However, that still leaves every other problem. How would you distinguish among a stack of Relto books? Why should I add yet another link between me and my current party if we get separated? Why should we add a separate way to get to someone's Relto when we already have perfectly good Relto books on our hips?
If you want to convince me don't make the book to look like a computer interface. Clickable spots are ok but scrollbars and dropdown menus are not.
Here, for the third time in this thread, is my idea to get rid of the scrollbars and drop down menu: Make the two columns clickable loops of cloth through the left hand page. Click and drag the edge of the loop to spool it by ("scrolling"). Instead of the drop-down menu, just make it a changing caption, and click the party name in the right hand column to determine whose Relto to link to.
realXCV
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Re: Cleaning Up Instancing

Post by realXCV »

75th Trombone wrote:How would you distinguish among a stack of Relto books? Why should I add yet another link between me and my current party if we get separated? Why should we add a separate way to get to someone's Relto when we already have perfectly good Relto books on our hips?
Because in that case, each book will link to only one instance.
Here, for the third time in this thread, is my idea to get rid of the scrollbars and drop down menu: Make the two columns clickable loops of cloth through the left hand page. Click and drag the edge of the loop to spool it by ("scrolling"). Instead of the drop-down menu, just make it a changing caption, and click the party name in the right hand column to determine whose Relto to link to.
Could it be made on multiple pages ?

Or... why not just enabling KI invites to Relto ?
75th Trombone
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Re: Cleaning Up Instancing

Post by 75th Trombone »

realXCV wrote:Or... why not just enabling KI invites to Relto ?
Because Yeesha Magic must be separated from D'ni technology that didn't know about Yeesha Magic.
Could it be made on multiple pages ?
Sure, I guess, but that makes the interface less convenient for a gain of... not much, as far as I can see. But if that makes my idea better in your eyes, then by all means that's okay. :)
Why should we add a separate way to get to someone's Relto when we already have perfectly good Relto books on our hips?
Because in that case, each book will link to only one instance.
If my idea were going to be confusing, that would be a good point. However, I believe the caption beneath the linking panel alleviates all possible confusion.

I suppose it might be a little confusing to panic link into a Relto that's not your own, but since you have to manually decide to make someone else's Relto active in your Relto book, I think such confusion would be short-lived and easily dissolved after the first time or two.
How would you distinguish among a stack of Relto books? Why should I add yet another link between me and my current party if we get separated?
I haven't seen answers to these two questions yet. I'll admit that the first one is pretty superficial. The second one is my big problem, though.

In your system, it goes Desired Age > [Panic Link] > Relto > Somewhere else > Relto > Desired Age again.

In my system, it goes Desired Age > [Panic Link] > Relto > Desired Age again.

With traditional Uru Live loading times, that's a fairly significant reduction in annoyance.
realXCV
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Re: Cleaning Up Instancing

Post by realXCV »

75th Trombone wrote:
realXCV wrote:Or... why not just enabling KI invites to Relto ?
Because Yeesha Magic must be separated from D'ni technology that didn't know about Yeesha Magic.
So, I guess you completely remove the KI invites system which is D'ni technology but uses Yeesha Magic.
Could it be made on multiple pages ?
Sure, I guess, but that makes the interface less convenient for a gain of... not much, as far as I can see. But if that makes my idea better in your eyes, then by all means that's okay. :)¸
You don't loose a lot. If you keep the first page as the link to your Relto and others pages as links to others Relto. You can still have your columns on thoses pages to prevent having 800 pages if you have that number of links.
Why should I add yet another link between me and my current party if we get separated?
...
In your system, it goes Desired Age > [Panic Link] > Relto > Somewhere else > Relto > Desired Age again.

In my system, it goes Desired Age > [Panic Link] > Relto > Desired Age again.

With traditional Uru Live loading times, that's a fairly significant reduction in annoyance.
Because the books need to be put somewhere. And It has the same total number of links than in the current system and even less in many cases.
75th Trombone
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Re: Cleaning Up Instancing

Post by 75th Trombone »

realXCV wrote:So, I guess you completely remove the KI invites system which is D'ni technology but uses Yeesha Magic.
Yes, absolutely. My Relto book invite system is less complicated with a better interface (IMHO, of course).
f you keep the first page as the link to your Relto and others pages as links to others Relto. You can still have your columns on thoses pages to prevent having 800 pages if you have that number of links.
I can dig that. It does add an extra Relto > Relto link, but it eliminates the ambiguity of what happens when you panic link, and hopefully we can optimize the loading so we can just load new state and not reload the Age geometry. (Plasma hackers: What happens currently when you use your Relto book in Relto?)
And It has the same total number of links than in the current system and even less in many cases.
Yes, but the current system sucks and should not be a basis for positive comparison. :)
realXCV
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Re: Cleaning Up Instancing

Post by realXCV »

75th Trombone wrote:I can dig that. It does add an extra Relto > Relto link, but it eliminates the ambiguity of what happens when you panic link, and hopefully we can optimize the loading so we can just load new state and not reload the Age geometry. (Plasma hackers: What happens currently when you use your Relto book in Relto?)
You can avoid that extra link by having the last visited Relto as the panic link.

I'm not really a Plasma hacker but when I use my Relto book in Relto, I link to Relto.
75th Trombone
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Re: Cleaning Up Instancing

Post by 75th Trombone »

realXCV wrote:You can avoid that extra link by having the last visited Relto as the panic link.
Good idea.
I'm not really a Plasma hacker but when I use my Relto book in Relto, I link to Relto.
Yes, thanks for that. :roll: Using context, what I meant was "What happens internally when you link from Relto to Relto? Does it reload everything as though it were a new Age, or does it intelligently only load new state?"
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