An instances overhaul

[realXCV]

Not the intro. The second speech.

And another gift is here, a link to the Cleft, here in Tomahna. You haven't been able to return here, but now you can. This book will take a special place on your shelf. This place is not meant to be shared. Return here alone when you wish to remember the cycle of things.

That can't be excused by saying it's an hologram.

[Gehn, lord of ages]

Not the intro. The second speech.

And another gift is here, a link to the Cleft, here in Tomahna. You haven't been able to return here, but now you can. This book will take a special place on your shelf. This place is not meant to be shared. Return here alone when you wish to remember the cycle of things.

That can't be excused by saying it's an hologram.

Hmm... I see your point.

Thinking this over, though, I don't think it will be a problem. It is not "meant" to be shared (and this is talking about the Cleft book you get after completing the ABM journey, not specifically about the Cleft in general). That doesn't exactly mean that it will be impossible to share it, just that she's telling you that you should visit alone "when you wish to remember the cycle of things". I see four options that would make this work.

1) The beginning is the same as I described before. In Relto, you start out with a different link to the Cleft (i.e. a book not in the "special place on your shelf" - a temporary link until you begin the Journey [it disappears when the four journey pillars arrive]). If you want help, you can share this book, or walk from the Cleft over to the desert parking lot area and join a group. Once you finish the journey and get your new Cleft book, you can still share this book, and still walk to the parking lot to join a group. If you want to "remember the cycle of things" and all, though, you'll go alone.

2) The same as option 1, except that the Cleft book cannot be shared in Relto (you can still walk out the gate and all to get to the desert parking lot to help others, though). This means that it is physically "not meant to be shared".

3&4) The same as options 1 or 3, except that the temporary link stays until you get your new book from Yeesha (this lessens the excitement of getting the book again, but lets more people help newbies and gather in the Cleft, even if they are only partway through the Journey).

In all of these, of course, the Rainy Cleft will have a closed gate (because its special - and maybe the quote can be referring just to it as an unsharable place).

[The stranger]

I can't see why it can't be shared. She said it "isn't meant" to be shared, not that it "can't" be shared.

Nexus: You chose to share one of your private Ages with a friend (hmm... how do we explain that? Since IC they are all in the same Age anyway...), and then they can come in anytime (but you can always delete the share whenever you want).
Relto: You use the "share book" icon on the Relto book. People link to your personal Relto (By the way, am I correct in assuming that this is the one IC private instance? There's no other way to explain it.) and then can link to your personal private instances of Ages from there (or from in the Ages). However, once they leave this they are no longer in the share.
Direct: Basically the same as Relto, except that you use it with another book?
Party: You can mass share with people. Is this through the Nexus (making it basically a temporary Nexus share), or through a book, or both?

Thinking it over, there are only 2 ways of sharing:

Nexus share just as you said. Used for tamporary share.

And direct. Relto is included in it, and also party. It works like that: you zoom in the book. Press the "share" symbol. Now you get window with all the people in the age. Press anyone you want to share the link with. A window will appear on their screen, asking if they would like to join your share. In they don't agree, they... well don't get the share. If they do,they will get a share, and the next time they link to the shared age, they will arrive in your instance. If you are shared, you are unable to share. If you want to, or just want to be released from the share, than you need to go to the book, zoom in, and press "release from share", and now the "share" option is enabled, the share is deleted (next time you link will be your instance), and "release from share" disappear.

But a 'hood instance would be a fully private instance. Just imagine it as the 'hood's private instance, and the 'hood just automatically invites you to all its private Ages. It will make it easy for large groups of friends to share an instance.

That kinda' works like direct share. Yes, it may be esier, but than comes the problem of what ages really need to be 'hood shared.

Well lets think. The biggest problem are people standing in the same place as other people, or in places that the other person would make impossible (such as standing on [previously privately] unmoving gear in Gahreeson which someone in another private instance just set in motion) and the sudden appearance of people. Perhaps everyone sneezes, looks around, suddenly notices people, turns around abruptly, etc. automatically to solve the latter part. The former is a little harder, as it would involve a somewhat clever program to take over each avatar's motions and spread them out. Perhaps it should make the whole Age public, just so that it doesn't have to keep changing areas (and causing some kind of unnatural behavior). The people further away from the start of the public event are separated a little slower (and more realistically).

Here's an idea: when an event starts, you "link" to the public age version, and randomly placed around the event area. When it's back, you are "linked" back to the private one, directly in the place and acrion you were in before the event started. That is, of course, for people who do a certain problematic action. If you are just walking around you will "link" to the public instance and stand in the same place as you were in the private one.

forget the "few words from a guy" part, as that comes later with Zandi

But if you do that, you put the journey as the base of the game. I don't really like that idea.

However, they can choose between going alone and going together

Same as my idea.

and people who are confused can instantly look for help

Same as my idea.

Immediate ways to get help. It's a public area, probably with Greeters or other experienced members waiting around to help people, and there are pamphlets explaining things (advancing the setting, giving a few IC disguised tips, and giving ways to contact help anywhere in the game).

But there's the problem. I thought about starting in thw town (public area) too, but people told me that starting in a public place right away is really overwhelming. What if I want to start alone? that's why I put the beginning in a personal place, that is small, and have no direction confuses (right for town, left for cleft). Also, the mexican guy will tell you that to go to d'ni go to the volcano and to meet people, go to town. It's really simple.

It is simpler in storyline. It's entirely logical that some cavern group would set up a visitor center thing near the Cleft. There's no need to design ways to tie in a whole Old West town, or another character.

Actually I find my idea nicer to the storyline. We heared about tadjinar in book of ti'ana. Why not seeing it for real?

It's a simpler build. There's only one small new area (still a lot of work - altogether the idea would need: car models and textures, some environmental textures, pamphlets modeled and written up, one building designed modeled and textured, a lot of programming/animations for the group/private choice and for the walking scenes in general, an animation or program for the avatar first coming in, and some sounds), instead of two areas including a town (much more work: animations voice and programming for the Mexican guy, several buildings designed modeled and textured [also a lot more complex, since they have to fit certain styles and all], some more environmental textures and all, sounds, lots of programming/animations for the walking around, etc.). While ambitious plans are good, a plan that starts out simpler will be better (will get up and running quicker, will take less focus from people working on other projects, and will allow people to do better quality work).

My ideas are indeed ambitious, but the plans shouldn't be deleted. We can start out with no mexican guy and and 2 building in town, and make more things as things progress.

- There's a simple and comprehensive way to choose "alone or together" - just go in groups if you want to work in groups, and go alone if you don't.

The same with my idea.

- There's a quick way out for people who want it (just walk to Zandi and take the Relto book), while still keeping the reasons to take the Cleft Journey

Actually, in my idea is quicker. The mexican guy is really near you. You walk up to him, he talks, give you a relto book, and leave. And I don't really like the idea of "relto book stake". It gives the impression that relto books are hotdogs. Although a mexican guy handing you out the book isn't really impressing, it at least gives you an impression that it's more that something you see every day. The relto book getting should be mysterious (mexican guy isn't very mysterious, but his words should be something like "and I have something for you. A friend told me to give this thing to everyone I see here, coming to d'ni. Don't know what this book is, but it should help you, I think. Keep it close with you"), not-side-taking (like the regular relto book taking, which gives the impression of the relto book being close to the yeesha and bahro faction).

[Gehn, lord of ages]

I can't see why it can't be shared. She said it "isn't meant" to be shared, not that it "can't" be shared.

Nexus: You chose to share one of your private Ages with a friend (hmm... how do we explain that? Since IC they are all in the same Age anyway...), and then they can come in anytime (but you can always delete the share whenever you want).
Relto: You use the "share book" icon on the Relto book. People link to your personal Relto (By the way, am I correct in assuming that this is the one IC private instance? There's no other way to explain it.) and then can link to your personal private instances of Ages from there (or from in the Ages). However, once they leave this they are no longer in the share.
Direct: Basically the same as Relto, except that you use it with another book?
Party: You can mass share with people. Is this through the Nexus (making it basically a temporary Nexus share), or through a book, or both?

Thinking it over, there are only 2 ways of sharing:

Nexus share just as you said. Used for temporary share.

And direct. Relto is included in it, and also party. It works like that: you zoom in the book. Press the "share" symbol. Now you get window with all the people in the age. Press anyone you want to share the link with. A window will appear on their screen, asking if they would like to join your share. In they don't agree, they... well don't get the share. If they do,they will get a share, and the next time they link to the shared age, they will arrive in your instance. If you are shared, you are unable to share. If you want to, or just want to be released from the share, than you need to go to the book, zoom in, and press "release from share", and now the "share" option is enabled, the share is deleted (next time you link will be your instance), and "release from share" disappear.

Are there any needs for direct sharing other than Relto (for example, a clearly private area [such as Teledahn] with a book in a clearly public area [like Ae'gura] which must be there [so it would be hard to just change the book or move it to a non public area])? Perhaps just Relto sharing (and all books accessed through your Relto will be to your private instance) and Nexus sharing (for permanent sharing). Relto sharing would be done either by individually sharing with people (with the "share" symbol and selecting a person who is near you), or some kind of mass sharing (which fits the party sharing - something like temporarily taking off your Relto belt and just holding it out for anyone to link through).

But a 'hood instance would be a fully private instance. Just imagine it as the 'hood's private instance, and the 'hood just automatically invites you to all its private Ages. It will make it easy for large groups of friends to share an instance.

That kinda' works like direct share. Yes, it may be esier, but than comes the problem of what ages really need to be 'hood shared.

I wonder if we could just allow 'hood leaders to choose what books to place in their 'hood. They'd just take whatever books they wanted to have as 'hood books from their Relto library (they'd get replacements, though), and those would become a 'hood shared private instance.

Here's an idea: when an event starts, you "link" to the public age version, and randomly placed around the event area. When it's back, you are "linked" back to the private one, directly in the place and action you were in before the event started. That is, of course, for people who do a certain problematic action. If you are just walking around you will "link" to the public instance and stand in the same place as you were in the private one.

Perhaps just having the avatars walk to spread themselves out, and then walk back later (while each person sees all the rest linking away?) to what they were doing? Is that technically possible?

Immediate ways to get help. It's a public area, probably with Greeters or other experienced members waiting around to help people, and there are pamphlets explaining things (advancing the setting, giving a few IC disguised tips, and giving ways to contact help anywhere in the game).

But there's the problem. I thought about starting in the town (public area) too, but people told me that starting in a public place right away is really overwhelming. What if I want to start alone? that's why I put the beginning in a personal place, that is small, and have no direction confuses (right for town, left for cleft). Also, the mexican guy will tell you that to go to d'ni go to the volcano and to meet people, go to town. It's really simple.

The desert parking lot should be a fairly lonely area (there aren't going to be streams of people - it's somewhat inaccessible, and is only really there for new players), which I would hope would reduce the problems of a public area. Ideally, there would be a couple helpful experienced people around, but that would be it (and they'd be discreet, asking if people wanted help and backing off for those easily overwhelmed by the multiplayer aspect). Aside from a few pamphlets (for when helpful people aren't around and someone is confused), the area is made to funnel people off to the volcano (all exits lead to the volcano, although the clearly marked path to the volcano has a slightly shorter cut scene). They have the ability, though, to choose intuitively then to go in a group. Left-D'ni, Right-People is extremely simple, but I think my idea is even simpler (no somewhat forced instructions about it [which can be done well, but can also be done poorly], just the intuitive way people act [by grouping together or going alone]).

Actually I find my idea nicer to the storyline. We heared about tadjinar in book of ti'ana. Why not seeing it for real?

That's the beauty in the Desert Parking lot idea. We can have Tadjinar too (accessible, once you've gotten a Relto book, from the parking lot area - before you get a Relto book you will "feel the call" and orient to the volcano at all times), and it doesn't have to be rushed or modified to fit into the beginning sequence. It can be whatever it fits best.

Actually, in my idea is quicker. The mexican guy is really near you. You walk up to him, he talks, give you a relto book, and leave. And I don't really like the idea of "relto book stake". It gives the impression that relto books are hotdogs. Although a mexican guy handing you out the book isn't really impressing, it at least gives you an impression that it's more that something you see every day. The relto book getting should be mysterious (mexican guy isn't very mysterious, but his words should be something like "and I have something for you. A friend told me to give this thing to everyone I see here, coming to d'ni. Don't know what this book is, but it should help you, I think. Keep it close with you"), not-side-taking (like the regular relto book taking, which gives the impression of the relto book being close to the yeesha and bahro faction).

The mystery around the Cleft itself can form enough mystery to make sure nobody mistakes the books for hotdogs. Zandi hints at a deep significance, and the note is Yeesha-cryptic (but note that there is nothing binding the books to taking the Yeesha Journey, just the clear fact that they are a Yeesha written book - the DRC can have something nearby that tells their side of the story, and the volcano tunnels eventual opening would provide a more DRC influenced route [or replace DRC with "nonYeesha faction"]).

Okay, and now that I've argued that whole thing, your thoughts have given me another idea - a fusion of our ideas, so to speak. It's still rather rough, though (although this might be good, as it will allow us to work together to refine it instead of working separately and forming opposing ideas from the same base).

You start out in the desert (as opposed to the Cleft area or the Town), with maybe a parking lot area, an old truck, a lone building, or a big tree to distinguish it (which explains how everyone can find it - or maybe it's right on the offramp of a highway). This is a public area (although, like my Desert Parking Lot idea, it shouldn't be that crowded or overwhelming). I'm not sure how avatars get here (perhaps from out of cars or just walking in from the distance). Like your idea, avatars get their Relto books immediately. Since it's a multiplayer area, this is probably best done with a note or sign (mysteriously written, of course) instead of an NPC. It's basically like your mexican guy (except that he's not physically there). People can then walk to the Cleft (with my grouping idea) by following a sign or path that says "Volcano". Another sign might point to Tadjinar, which would be a multiplayer area with some puzzles, areas to hang out, and some other things (minigames, clothing options, etc.). Following the Volcano path will take you to Zandi at the Cleft, who will direct you to the Journey (which will give you the Journey pillars for your Relto). The DRC could also have something (either at the original area, or somewhere around the Volcano) stating their message. This is part of the uneasy alliance between the DRC (and note that I use the term DRC here to collectively note all the nonYeesha/Bahro forces) and Yeesha, as noted by how everyone has a Relto (although that could also be Yeesha's manipulation or just craziness - "if she wants to give everyone a Relto, okay") and how the DRC doesn't seem to be censoring much of Yeesha's stuff. People would have to have a book in their Relto to the desert, but should it be to the Cleft (because that is traditional - it will also make sure people recognize the main puzzles and such in the desert) or the other desert area (which is more central for Tadjinar and other builds, and would be returning them to where they started)?

[realXCV]

Are there any needs for direct sharing other than Relto (for example, a clearly private area [such as Teledahn] with a book in a clearly public area [like Ae'gura] which must be there [so it would be hard to just change the book or move it to a non public area])?

When a new age is released.

I wonder if we could just allow 'hood leaders to choose what books to place in their 'hood. They'd just take whatever books they wanted to have as 'hood books from their Relto library (they'd get replacements, though), and those would become a 'hood shared private instance.

Where will you put thoses book?

Perhaps just having the avatars walk to spread themselves out, and then walk back later (while each person sees all the rest linking away?) to what they were doing? Is that technically possible?

Yes... As long as the players know it's a feature and not a bug that make them walk automatically.

Immediate ways to get help. It's a public area, probably with Greeters or other experienced members waiting around to help people, and there are pamphlets explaining things (advancing the setting, giving a few IC disguised tips, and giving ways to contact help anywhere in the game).

But there's the problem. I thought about starting in the town (public area) too, but people told me that starting in a public place right away is really overwhelming. What if I want to start alone? that's why I put the beginning in a personal place, that is small, and have no direction confuses (right for town, left for cleft). Also, the mexican guy will tell you that to go to d'ni go to the volcano and to meet people, go to town. It's really simple.

The desert parking lot should be a fairly lonely area (there aren't going to be streams of people - it's somewhat inaccessible, and is only really there for new players), which I would hope would reduce the problems of a public area. Ideally, there would be a couple helpful experienced people around, but that would be it (and they'd be discreet, asking if people wanted help and backing off for those easily overwhelmed by the multiplayer aspect). Aside from a few pamphlets (for when helpful people aren't around and someone is confused), the area is made to funnel people off to the volcano (all exits lead to the volcano, although the clearly marked path to the volcano has a slightly shorter cut scene). They have the ability, though, to choose intuitively then to go in a group. Left-D'ni, Right-People is extremely simple, but I think my idea is even simpler (no somewhat forced instructions about it [which can be done well, but can also be done poorly], just the intuitive way people act [by grouping together or going alone]).

Is there a third (fourth?) options for thoses who don't need an extra step at the beginning of the game ?

Actually, in my idea is quicker. The mexican guy is really near you. You walk up to him, he talks, give you a relto book, and leave. And I don't really like the idea of "relto book stake". It gives the impression that relto books are hotdogs. Although a mexican guy handing you out the book isn't really impressing, it at least gives you an impression that it's more that something you see every day. The relto book getting should be mysterious (mexican guy isn't very mysterious, but his words should be something like "and I have something for you. A friend told me to give this thing to everyone I see here, coming to d'ni. Don't know what this book is, but it should help you, I think. Keep it close with you"), not-side-taking (like the regular relto book taking, which gives the impression of the relto book being close to the yeesha and bahro faction).

An even quicker idea: you start directly in the Cleft or Relto.

Okay, and now that I've argued that whole thing, your thoughts have given me another idea - a fusion of our ideas, so to speak. It's still rather rough, though (although this might be good, as it will allow us to work together to refine it instead of working separately and forming opposing ideas from the same base).

So it will be you two against me?

You start out in the desert (as opposed to the Cleft area or the Town), with maybe a parking lot area, an old truck, a lone building, or a big tree to distinguish it (which explains how everyone can find it - or maybe it's right on the offramp of a highway). This is a public area (although, like my Desert Parking Lot idea, it shouldn't be that crowded or overwhelming). I'm not sure how avatars get here (perhaps from out of cars or just walking in from the distance). Like your idea, avatars get their Relto books immediately. Since it's a multiplayer area, this is probably best done with a note or sign (mysteriously written, of course) instead of an NPC. It's basically like your mexican guy (except that he's not physically there). People can then walk to the Cleft (with my grouping idea) by following a sign or path that says "Volcano". Another sign might point to Tadjinar, which would be a multiplayer area with some puzzles, areas to hang out, and some other things (minigames, clothing options, etc.). Following the Volcano path will take you to Zandi at the Cleft, who will direct you to the Journey (which will give you the Journey pillars for your Relto). The DRC could also have something (either at the original area, or somewhere around the Volcano) stating their message. This is part of the uneasy alliance between the DRC (and note that I use the term DRC here to collectively note all the nonYeesha/Bahro forces) and Yeesha, as noted by how everyone has a Relto (although that could also be Yeesha's manipulation or just craziness - "if she wants to give everyone a Relto, okay") and how the DRC doesn't seem to be censoring much of Yeesha's stuff. People would have to have a book in their Relto to the desert, but should it be to the Cleft (because that is traditional - it will also make sure people recognize the main puzzles and such in the desert) or the other desert area (which is more central for Tadjinar and other builds, and would be returning them to where they started)?

I still think the cleft should be single player. Making it multiplayer would kill the puzzles in it.

As for your starting point, I have another idea.
It's basically the same as yours but with a few change.
- The starting age (the desert, a parking lot, an old city...) stay multiplayer but is instanced like hoods (for thechnical reasons)
- The players can stay there, explore or use their relto book. Once they use their book, they can no longer go back to that place. They can't go directly to the cleft.
- Once in Relto, it works like in MOUL (with the cleft pillar)
An advantage of this idea is that it can work even if cyan doesn't provide the assets for Cleft and Relto (which you will need if you want to implements your changes).

[Gehn, lord of ages]

Are there any needs for direct sharing other than Relto (for example, a clearly private area [such as Teledahn] with a book in a clearly public area [like Ae'gura] which must be there [so it would be hard to just change the book or move it to a non public area])?

When a new age is released.

Hmm... that would be an especially problematic time too (because people would probably be linking through with frequency, and to not see them on the other side... )

I wonder if we could just allow 'hood leaders to choose what books to place in their 'hood. They'd just take whatever books they wanted to have as 'hood books from their Relto library (they'd get replacements, though), and those would become a 'hood shared private instance.

Where will you put thoses book?

In the book area. There would be a certain amount of linking book pedestals there, and 'hood leaders could fill them as they wanted.

Perhaps just having the avatars walk to spread themselves out, and then walk back later (while each person sees all the rest linking away?) to what they were doing? Is that technically possible?

Yes... As long as the players know it's a feature and not a bug that make them walk automatically.

Yeah, that would be slightly disconcerting. Maybe public events should be held in a public private instance - a private instance that anyone can join into. People linking into the Age would be linked into this public instance, but people already in it would stay normal. Perhaps people who were isolated (so they wouldn't suddenly see new people or suddenly be where a bunch of other people were) would also be automatically added. It would be annoying for those who were near someone else in another private instance, though (because you could never know which way to go to be alone and so get straight into the public event). Maybe add a "close eyes" emote that briefly blackens the screen and explains that everyone just came in when you blinked?

I still think the cleft should be single player. Making it multiplayer would kill the puzzles in it.

As for your starting point, I have another idea.
It's basically the same as yours but with a few change.
- The starting age (the desert, a parking lot, an old city...) stay multiplayer but is instanced like hoods (for technical reasons)
- The players can stay there, explore or use their relto book. Once they use their book, they can no longer go back to that place. They can't go directly to the cleft.
- Once in Relto, it works like in MOUL (with the cleft pillar)
An advantage of this idea is that it can work even if cyan doesn't provide the assets for Cleft and Relto (which you will need if you want to implements your changes).

I don't think that the Cleft or Relto assets would be necessary. The cutscene (to walk to the Cleft) could end with just a hint of the Cleft coming up, and then load the Cleft like a link (without the link sound, though). The desert book in Relto could just be added like a regular book, or just go through the MOUL cleft pillar. I think that would work fairly okay.


Okay, now a three way combination of ideas (perhaps biased a little towards mine simply because I'm the combiner right now)

Once you finish working on your avatar and all, you enter the game in a cutscene walking towards a pickup truck parked (perhaps under a tree) along the side of a desert road. This is a 'hood styled instanced area (for technical reasons, as realXCV pointed out), with some OOC way to coordinate greeters and helpers. In the back of the truck is a pile of Relto books (enough so that the small amount of people concurrently in an instance won't use them all up). Either your avatar picks up a book automatically, or you can't leave without picking up a book. There is a note/sign that mysteriously tells you what it is. The books are from Yeesha, but are being released in a neutral fashion (both Yeesha and nonYeesha factions benefit from Relto books [safety and convenience for members, plus the fact that they can only convince members that are able to get to them], so they both allow them to be freely let out).

People can walk to the Cleft, but this is only a one-way trip. They can go in groups or alone (while lots of people like the single player Cleft, and so could freely go alone, many others want help or want to go with friends). They arrive at (single or group) private instances of the Cleft as before described. They have Relto books, so they can always link out (if they didn't want to go alone or in a group, or if they just want to go somewhere else). The Cleft pedestal will act just like in MOUL - it will stay there until/unless they complete the Cleft Journey and get the journey pillars. They can invite people to Relto and then go through the pedestal to the Cleft together if they want help. They will also be able to access a book to the original area (not sure when/how to give this yet).

This keeps both the Cleft and Relto just like in MOUL, but with an explanation of how you got your Relto book and a way to go to the Cleft first (either alone or with others in a way that doesn't require invitations or anything). There's also a way to have people around at the beginning to help (at the very first place you arrive at). It's slower than just starting in Relto, and less mysterious (in the ABM way) than the Cleft, but faster than starting at the Cleft and more mysterious than Relto (because Relto is so different that people don't feel the same mystery as the mundane-but-special Cleft area).

Thoughts?

[realXCV]

I don't think that the Cleft or Relto assets would be necessary. The cutscene (to walk to the Cleft) could end with just a hint of the Cleft coming up, and then load the Cleft like a link (without the link sound, though). The desert book in Relto could just be added like a regular book, or just go through the MOUL cleft pillar. I think that would work fairly okay.

If you use a cutscene to walk to the cleft then I agree that you don't the assets. As for the desert book in Relto, it can stay like it currently is. The book in the pillar can only be used if you have not completed the cleft. Unless you're talking about a book to the starting point. In that case, you should not be able to walk to the cleft unless you are "allowed" to go there.

Either your avatar picks up a book automatically, or you can't leave without picking up a book.

With a big error message popping in front of you ?

People can walk to the Cleft, but this is only a one-way trip. They can go in groups or alone (while lots of people like the single player Cleft, and so could freely go alone, many others want help or want to go with friends).

How do you choose between single player and multiplayer?

They can invite people to Relto and then go through the pedestal to the Cleft together if they want help. They will also be able to access a book to the original area (not sure when/how to give this yet).

After linking through the cleft book, will they end up in a private cleft or in the same cleft they were assigned in case they ran in group to a multiplayer one.

This keeps both the Cleft and Relto just like in MOUL, but with an explanation of how you got your Relto book and a way to go to the Cleft first

I hope that we won't also need an explanation on how we got to that place (in the desert).

There's also a way to have people around at the beginning to help (at the very first place you arrive at).

How?

[The stranger]

Well...

On one time visit in town: not really fair, I think. I'm actually one for one time places. I think that there should be a one time rain in the cleft, and than it's done, and no 2 links. But here, I think this place should be available for all every time.

On 'hood instanced town: problem. I can be a member of UO 'hood and have 500 people in town, or in one of the DRC 'hoods and have 0 people in town. I think it should be completely public.

On 'hood instances: another problem. So, evey book in the book room is public? if not, it will just cause confusion. And if it is, than gahreesen is also public! but wait, how do we solve the other puzzles in the age? 'hood gahreesen- public and limited, real gahreesen- private and large? but wait, it makes 2 instances for the same age, which is just what my idea is against. See the problem?

On beginning in relto or cleft: if we do that, we are back in point A. Relto is bad for story, private cleft is too problematic (no way to see others soon, so on).

On your idea for beginning: well, as I said before, it's nice, but as you mentioned, it's a fusion of our ideas. I think the beginning are should be a small, private area, with a way to go to the cleft (volcano) or to a pull public community area (a town is the nicest thing I could come up with). About the DRC place in the desert where they state their point of view and so on... well I thought about that too, but I think it will be nicer if the game beginning will be the same for eveyone, and after you arrive in d'ni you can choose which journey or quest to do, sort of what side to take. Though I had an idea: after you enter the tunnels, where the second pickable camera was, you find a hologram imager, like the one in the cleft, just without a code. When you press it, it starts as a message from Victor Laxman where he tells you to go to d'ni, be safe, take a KI from the resting room nearby, but it suddenly changes to yeesha telling you to go to d'ni in her way of speaking (yeesha hacked the message). So it's kinda' yeesha and DRC points mixed.

On avatar walking around when event starts: it shouldn't be too much of a problem. The event starts, they walk around, stand somewhere randomly, and return to the last action when it ends. Shouldn't be much of a problems.

[realXCV]

On 'hood instanced town: problem. I can be a member of UO 'hood and have 500 people in town, or in one of the DRC 'hoods and have 0 people in town. I think it should be completely public.

I never said hood instanced. I said instanced like hoods. A kind of population instancing. When an instance is full, a new one is created. When an instance is empty, it is deleted. With a public single instance, what could happen is a wait of 30 minutes just to start the game which is not the best way to interest people in playing the game.

On 'hood instances: another problem. So, evey book in the book room is public? if not, it will just cause confusion. And if it is, than gahreesen is also public! but wait, how do we solve the other puzzles in the age? 'hood gahreesen- public and limited, real gahreesen- private and large? but wait, it makes 2 instances for the same age, which is just what my idea is against. See the problem?

In MOUL, the hood Gahreesen book was public. The barricade in the KI room was placed so you couldn't go to the next room. It might not work with your idea but it works perfectly well with mine.

On beginning in relto or cleft: if we do that, we are back in point A. Relto is bad for story, private cleft is too problematic (no way to see others soon, so on).

Relto is only bad for story of newcomers. The point when they changed the starting point from Cleft to Relto was to be able to start more quickly, adding an extra step is doing exactly the opposite.

On your idea for beginning: well, as I said before, it's nice, but as you mentioned, it's a fusion of our ideas.

A biased fusion.

About the DRC place in the desert where they state their point of view and so on... well I thought about that too, but I think it will be nicer if the game beginning will be the same for eveyone, and after you arrive in d'ni you can choose which journey or quest to do, sort of what side to take. Though I had an idea: after you enter the tunnels, where the second pickable camera was, you find a hologram imager, like the one in the cleft, just without a code. When you press it, it starts as a message from Victor Laxman where he tells you to go to d'ni, be safe, take a KI from the resting room nearby, but it suddenly changes to yeesha telling you to go to d'ni in her way of speaking (yeesha hacked the message). So it's kinda' yeesha and DRC points mixed.

On avatar walking around when event starts: it shouldn't be too much of a problem. The event starts, they walk around, stand somewhere randomly, and return to the last action when it ends. Shouldn't be much of a problems.

After thinking of it, I agree it's not a problem... it's worst.
In MOUL, the problem with events is that they often occured in an overcroweded place or somewhere you couldn't go like a private instance. There also the case of the events happening when you are not playing the game. Here, let say that an event start in a hood and you are also in a hood (not the same). Do you automatically link to the hood of the event? What if you didn't want to assist to that event? If the event last for 3 hours, does it mean that the only way you can leave it is by quitting the game? And if you are free to go during the event then what will happen at the end of the event if you linked to another age. Will you still link back to the age and place you where before the event? On linking: do you just magically link to the event or does the avatar do all the long walk to a linking book. If you choose walking then on events happening in smaller age it shouldn't be a big problem but if the event happens in a large private age it might be a bit more difficult. If you choose magically link then how do you explain that? Do we assume that players can do YeeshaMagic? If yes then it should also work even when there's no event. It could be linked by the bahros or yeesha but would they really link you just to hear a long speech from the DRC or another group.

If you only assist events if you are in in the same instance, then you are back to where you were in MOUL.

Back on the automatically walking: It might not be a big problem from a developer POV but from a player POV, it can be one. They can expect that something occurs with their avatar if they trigger something where they are but if they are just standing and suddenly their avatar start walking or link to another age/instance (say hello to linking lag). There are more chances that they consider it as a multiplayer bug.

Also: what would be considered as an event?

[The stranger]

I never said hood instanced. I said instanced like hoods. A kind of population instancing. When an instance is full, a new one is created. When an instance is empty, it is deleted. With a public single instance, what could happen is a wait of 30 minutes just to start the game which is not the best way to interest people in playing the game.

You arrive in a personal place, and you can go to the public place from there.

In MOUL, the hood Gahreesen book was public. The barricade in the KI room was placed so you couldn't go to the next room. It might not work with your idea but it works perfectly well with mine.

Wait, isn't this topic about my idea? hehe, nevermind, it has gone offtopic long ago .

Relto is only bad for story of newcomers. The point when they changed the starting point from Cleft to Relto was to be able to start more quickly, adding an extra step is doing exactly the opposite.

Just a sec... in my idea (and also in GLOA's but he's not really sure about it) you get a relto book automatically after you start a game. It's like MOUL, with an explanation for the relto. And, you get a nexus book in relto, with a link to your neighborhood. So it's almost the same. The town is there for people who want to take the long way to d'ni.

Here, let say that an event start in a hood and you are also in a hood (not the same). Do you automatically link to the hood of the event?

No... the 'hoods are different places.

If the event last for 3 hours, does it mean that the only way you can leave it is by quitting the game?

You know what, let's give 'em some "leave event" hotkey, so they will be able to leave any event accuring in a personal instance forever, for people who don't want to be bugged.

On linking: do you just magically link to the event or does the avatar do all the long walk to a linking book. If you choose walking then on events happening in smaller age it shouldn't be a big problem but if the event happens in a large private age it might be a bit more difficult. If you choose magically link then how do you explain that? Do we assume that players can do YeeshaMagic? If yes then it should also work even when there's no event. It could be linked by the bahros or yeesha but would they really link you just to hear a long speech from the DRC or another group.

What?? wait, you don't understand. An event is triggered when you walk near the event area. If you are in ae'gura and there is suddenly an event in gahreesen you won't automatically walk all the way to gahreesen...

Also: what would be considered as an event?

Well, ususally it's a "visit" of a cyan worlds played character, but since most of uru's stories SHOULD be fan made, this is indeed a problem...

Help?