An instances overhaul

[Gehn, lord of ages]

I don't think that the Cleft or Relto assets would be necessary. The cutscene (to walk to the Cleft) could end with just a hint of the Cleft coming up, and then load the Cleft like a link (without the link sound, though). The desert book in Relto could just be added like a regular book, or just go through the MOUL cleft pillar. I think that would work fairly okay.

If you use a cutscene to walk to the cleft then I agree that you don't the assets. As for the desert book in Relto, it can stay like it currently is. The book in the pillar can only be used if you have not completed the cleft. Unless you're talking about a book to the starting point. In that case, you should not be able to walk to the cleft unless you are "allowed" to go there.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. I think I agree, though. You should only be able to go to the Cleft at A) Before starting the Journey or B) after finishing the ABM Journey.

Either your avatar picks up a book automatically, or you can't leave without picking up a book.

With a big error message popping in front of you ?

I was thinking more of invisible fences, or your avatar automatically turning around - I think automatic book retrieval is best, though.

People can walk to the Cleft, but this is only a one-way trip. They can go in groups or alone (while lots of people like the single player Cleft, and so could freely go alone, many others want help or want to go with friends).

How do you choose between single player and multiplayer?

By the idea I described awhile back - that people would be grouped automatically with anybody they were within a certain radius. If you leave as a group, walking together, you'll arrive at the Cleft as a group. If you go off to the Cleft alone, you will arrive alone.

They can invite people to Relto and then go through the pedestal to the Cleft together if they want help. They will also be able to access a book to the original area (not sure when/how to give this yet).

After linking through the cleft book, will they end up in a private cleft or in the same cleft they were assigned in case they ran in group to a multiplayer one.

Private (although they can share this with other people). The puzzles will all be at their starting positions.

This keeps both the Cleft and Relto just like in MOUL, but with an explanation of how you got your Relto book and a way to go to the Cleft first

I hope that we won't also need an explanation on how we got to that place (in the desert).

I don't think so. It's on Earth, so people can invent backstory with whatever Earth transportation they got - it's not like having to explain suddenly having a linking book.

There's also a way to have people around at the beginning to help (at the very first place you arrive at).

How?

I've kind of lost track of where that quote is from. In the latest version of my idea, there would be some way for greeters or helpers to see who was in the various instances of the starting area (perhaps IC, but most likely an OOC thing), and a way to choose which one to go to.

On 'hood instances: another problem. So, evey book in the book room is public? if not, it will just cause confusion. And if it is, than gahreesen is also public! but wait, how do we solve the other puzzles in the age? 'hood gahreesen- public and limited, real gahreesen- private and large? but wait, it makes 2 instances for the same age, which is just what my idea is against. See the problem?

The books would be (in my ideas) private but automatically shared by all the people in the 'hood. As for the puzzles and instancing, it's the same problem with sharing links (if you go to someone else's Teledahn, it could have different amounts of puzzles solved) or with public events (as everyone will probably not have the same progress in the Age). This can be explained slightly, though, in that most of the puzzles can be turned off - so its possible that they were just turned off/opened between the times you went between them.

Relto is only bad for story of newcomers. The point when they changed the starting point from Cleft to Relto was to be able to start more quickly, adding an extra step is doing exactly the opposite.

But we can't make a game only for old characters. Yes, adding another step will be slower than starting from Relto (due to the help people are able to get, the ability to work in the Cleft in groups, and the ability to go straight to Relto, it could be significantly faster than starting at the Cleft), but is also more overarching and adds a little to the story.

When you press it, it starts as a message from Victor Laxman where he tells you to go to d'ni, be safe, take a KI from the resting room nearby, but it suddenly changes to yeesha telling you to go to d'ni in her way of speaking (yeesha hacked the message). So it's kinda' yeesha and DRC points mixed.

I like the idea of a DRC/Yeesha split message. Another imager, though? Maybe two signs could do the same thing.

You know what, let's give 'em some "leave event" hotkey, so they will be able to leave any event accuring in a personal instance forever, for people who don't want to be bugged.

Or they can just link out with their Reltos (and go off to some other Age).

On events:

Well, ususally it's a "visit" of a cyan worlds played character, but since most of uru's stories SHOULD be fan made, this is indeed a problem...

Help?

Probably the shard operators would be able to flip a switch (metaphorically) to make a private area public. Still, an event is a rather ill defined term. How easy should it be to start an event (should it be only the top people in a shard, major leaders, or just anybody)? How should people think about events (are parties events? Are random desires to just all come together events?)? Yeah, I have no idea.

Perhaps (not exactly related) public events should only occur for people linking in, or people who enter into the "area" of the event. That way, there are no strange forces needed to explain how suddenly lots of people arrived. So if you are in the hut in Teledahn while an event takes place there, you don't see it (and so you don't see everyone suddenly materialize, or have to link or walk randomly). If you walk into or link into the hut, though, you see the event. If the event moves out of the hut, though, and into your area, you don't see it (because that would again involve people randomly appearing and/or walking/sneezing/linking oddly).

And I got a cool idea for the starting area that would only work if we could make a few small changes to the Cleft and could make the tunnel areas (so it would perhaps involve getting formally approved by Cyan, or would perhaps not work at all - bear with me though). You start in the Volcano (the same area as in EoA), climbing down on a rope and grabbing a Relto book from a nearby table (automatically). This is a 'hood styled instance (so populations won't break it - and there would be ways for greeters and helpers to spread themselves out) There is an imager or signs or flyers or something here from both Yeesha and the DRC. Yeesha urges you to heed the call and take the Journey in the Cleft (by climbing back up the rope - this would be an animation and people would have to wait only a short time if they were going to climb down, or maybe there are multiple ropes), while the DRC instructs you to follow the tunnels down. The Cleft works the same as in MOUL, with the book pedestal in Relto and everything. The tunnels work as other people have described them. Either one can be explored with a group (by a slightly modified version of the radius idea I had). The only ways to get back, though, would be from an eder tomahn link near the top, or from a Cleft book (and maybe the eder tomahn link will only be available before you start the main area of the tunnels or after completing them [like the Cleft book] - the tunnels break off at some point so that you can only go downward, and so cannot return by a link to the Volcano or Cleft).

However, the most practical I see is still a truck in the desert that you walk to, get a Relto book, and can go off to the Cleft alone or together (by walking alone or in groups). There could be an imager or signs or such here from both sides as well, and a simple cutscene to the Cleft. This doesn't use all the Cyan stuff needed in the other idea (although it would be nice to have the gate opened so you could walk from the Cleft to the truck in the desert).

[realXCV]

I don't think so. It's on Earth, so people can invent backstory with whatever Earth transportation they got - it's not like having to explain suddenly having a linking book.

Why not? What prevent them from inventing a backstory on how they got the book?

Perhaps (not exactly related) public events should only occur for people linking in, or people who enter into the "area" of the event. That way, there are no strange forces needed to explain how suddenly lots of people arrived.

Seeing people arriving has never been a problem. I don't understand why it is one now.

So if you are in the hut in Teledahn while an event takes place there, you don't see it (and so you don't see everyone suddenly materialize, or have to link or walk randomly). If you walk into or link into the hut, though, you see the event. If the event moves out of the hut, though, and into your area, you don't see it (because that would again involve people randomly appearing and/or walking/sneezing/linking oddly).

If you are in teledahn, outside of the hut and an event start in another instance of teledahn inside the hut, you are not affected but as soon as you enter it, you link to the event instance, right? Once done you... exit the hut? (And link to your teledahn of course). At least make the event last long enough to have the time to link to it and see something happening instead of just having a useless double link.

The only ways to get back, though, would be from an eder tomahn link near the top, or from a Cleft book (and maybe the eder tomahn link will only be available before you start the main area of the tunnels or after completing them [like the Cleft book] - the tunnels break off at some point so that you can only go downward, and so cannot return by a link to the Volcano or Cleft).

There's also the bahro stone is ae'gura.

However, the most practical I see is still a truck in the desert that you walk to, get a Relto book, and can go off to the Cleft alone or together (by walking alone or in groups). There could be an imager or signs or such here from both sides as well, and a simple cutscene to the Cleft. This doesn't use all the Cyan stuff needed in the other idea (although it would be nice to have the gate opened so you could walk from the Cleft to the truck in the desert).

ZandiMobile?

[Gehn, lord of ages]

I don't think so. It's on Earth, so people can invent backstory with whatever Earth transportation they got - it's not like having to explain suddenly having a linking book.

Why not? What prevent them from inventing a backstory on how they got the book?

There's two main reasons for this backstory
1) New players can be very confused as to why everything happened (when they don't yet have all the knowledge to develop a logical backstory) or even what type of game it is.
2) What prevents people from just making up a description of each Age instead of having all the 3D files and server space and everything? This adds a little more story in an unobtrusive way, filling in one of the major gaps in MOUL.

Perhaps (not exactly related) public events should only occur for people linking in, or people who enter into the "area" of the event. That way, there are no strange forces needed to explain how suddenly lots of people arrived.

Seeing people arriving has never been a problem. I don't understand why it is one now.

I mean seeing a bunch of people appearing without linking, in places that contradict your view of the Age (past locked doors, on top of other people, in places impossible with how you were navigating a puzzle [such as pushing up pillars and suddenly seeing people appear in the middle of them]).

So if you are in the hut in Teledahn while an event takes place there, you don't see it (and so you don't see everyone suddenly materialize, or have to link or walk randomly). If you walk into or link into the hut, though, you see the event. If the event moves out of the hut, though, and into your area, you don't see it (because that would again involve people randomly appearing and/or walking/sneezing/linking oddly).

If you are in teledahn, outside of the hut and an event start in another instance of teledahn inside the hut, you are not affected but as soon as you enter it, you link to the event instance, right? Once done you... exit the hut? (And link to your teledahn of course). At least make the event last long enough to have the time to link to it and see something happening instead of just having a useless double link.

Yeah, something like that. Exiting the hut won't get you out of the event instance, I would think (so people in the event don't have to worry about spreading out and accidentally leaving the event).

However, the most practical I see is still a truck in the desert that you walk to, get a Relto book, and can go off to the Cleft alone or together (by walking alone or in groups). There could be an imager or signs or such here from both sides as well, and a simple cutscene to the Cleft. This doesn't use all the Cyan stuff needed in the other idea (although it would be nice to have the gate opened so you could walk from the Cleft to the truck in the desert).

ZandiMobile?

No, just a regular old pickup truck.

[realXCV]

1) New players can be very confused as to why everything happened (when they don't yet have all the knowledge to develop a logical backstory) or even what type of game it is.

- Someone gave them the book.
or
- They found the book somewhere.

2) What prevents people from just making up a description of each Age instead of having all the 3D files and server space and everything? This adds a little more story in an unobtrusive way, filling in one of the major gaps in MOUL.

A logical explanation for the step between starting the game and being there is not a story.

I mean seeing a bunch of people appearing without linking, in places that contradict your view of the Age (past locked doors, on top of other people, in places impossible with how you were navigating a puzzle [such as pushing up pillars and suddenly seeing people appear in the middle of them]).

You can't see people linking past locked door. And pillars are not the best places for an event.

[Mac_Fife]

This thread seems to have digressed a bit from "An instances overhaul"

1) New players can be very confused as to why everything happened (when they don't yet have all the knowledge to develop a logical backstory) or even what type of game it is.

Actually, there is a ready made backstory. It was in the form of a booklet which came bundled with the URU:ABM Collector's Edition, but since it was probably a reproduction of part of the "Prima Official Travel Journal" for ABM (the booklet was written by Bryan Stratton who wrote a number of the Prima game guides) I guess it was copyright, and so hasn't become widely available. The first part of the booklet gives you the lead-up to your arrival at the cleft, the second part is a walkthrough of the cleft written something in the style of a travel guide.

Cutting the six pages of intro text into one paragraph has an author being instructed to meet some DRC explorers and write a travel journal on the journey to the ancient city of the D'ni. A slightly nutty DRC guy picks the writer up at the airport and drives him to the desert. As they approach the volcano an urgent cell phone call means the DRC guy has to rush off elsewhere, so he drops the writer off at the gate in the wire fence and tells him to walk the rest of the way and wait for Dr Watson at the cleft.

The idea that every explorer is a travel writer would clearly be ludicrous - that was just a gambit to explain the journal, but the method of arrival is plausible. What I'm really getting at is that people keep assuming that there will never be a manual or guide to give people the essential background, but MO:UL had a manual although I'll bet a lot of people never read it (or never knew about it). It was still available on mystonline.com until fairly recently. The MO:UL manual had an FAQ which explained a lot of things but it maybe wasn't that great at giving you the answer to "why am I here?" - I guess the answer was assumed to be "because you wanted to be here".

Anyway, individual shards could easily create their own manual, with their own variations of backstory: It's much easier and faster than modelling new areas - it's just a way to get you into the game, after all.

[Gehn, lord of ages]

- Someone gave them the book.
or
- They found the book somewhere.

Yes, but we're talking about new players here. Not all players are fully familiar with what Uru is (even players from other Myst games), and a start in Relto can be misleading (it doesn't make me think "human exploring a vast underground cavern and its Ages" - the Cleft can give a little of that impression, at least).

2) What prevents people from just making up a description of each Age instead of having all the 3D files and server space and everything? This adds a little more story in an unobtrusive way, filling in one of the major gaps in MOUL.

A logical explanation for the step between starting the game and being there is not a story.

True, but you'll admit that this is more than just a logical explanation (it's not just a couple lines saying what happened - there's some atmosphere and stuff around it).

I mean seeing a bunch of people appearing without linking, in places that contradict your view of the Age (past locked doors, on top of other people, in places impossible with how you were navigating a puzzle [such as pushing up pillars and suddenly seeing people appear in the middle of them]).

You can't see people linking past locked door. And pillars are not the best places for an event.

I'll admit the locked door part (but it would still be odd to suddenly see people walk out of a door that was locked [especially for those doors where you can see part of what's past them] or open a door that was locked [locked in your instance, but unlocked in theirs] with ease). For the pillars - what if the event happens to go to Jalak or Kadish? I'm not saying the event would be on or about the pillars, but just that these could be dramatically different in each instance and so would present very odd happenings when the instances all merged).

@Mac_Fife: Interesting, I had heard about that booklet before, but never in any detail. A manual, if people actually read it (and there might be a problem - perhaps people are asked if they are a "New Player" and if so are shown a short copy describing how they got there [something that's fairly universal (no travel writers ), but gives them the basics in atmosphere: that they are themselves, normal humans, and what IC D'ni and all is] either OOC or IC), would work fine.

[realXCV]

- Someone gave them the book.
or
- They found the book somewhere.

Yes, but we're talking about new players here. Not all players are fully familiar with what Uru is (even players from other Myst games), and a start in Relto can be misleading (it doesn't make me think "human exploring a vast underground cavern and its Ages" - the Cleft can give a little of that impression, at least).

It works with new players too.

I'll admit the locked door part (but it would still be odd to suddenly see people walk out of a door that was locked [especially for those doors where you can see part of what's past them] or open a door that was locked [locked in your instance, but unlocked in theirs] with ease).

It still can't happen (unless the event happens in your instance) but in even in that case, you would be outside of the area so you shouldn't see anything.

For the pillars - what if the event happens to go to Jalak or Kadish? I'm not saying the event would be on or about the pillars, but just that these could be dramatically different in each instance and so would present very odd happenings when the instances all merged).

The problems with the pillars is that the ones in your instance and the ones in the event instance may not be at the same height.

[Mac_Fife]

@Mac_Fife: Interesting, I had heard about that booklet before, but never in any detail. A manual, if people actually read it (and there might be a problem - ...

Definitely. As I said, I think a lot of people, especially those who missed the first month or two of MO:UL, didn't even see the MO:UL manual, even though there was a link to it from the "Play" button of mystonline.com.

... - perhaps people are asked if they are a "New Player" and if so are shown a short copy describing how they got there

Give a link to the manual/background when you choose to create a new avatar.

There's nothing wrong with a travel guide format for a manual as such, just as long as there's no implication that the player wrote it themselves. It could be reason the that brought you to the cleft - "I read the 'Rough Guide to New Mexico' and thought that'd be a cool place to visit". Maybe something like the tri-fold leaflets you see in places like tourist offices or hotel foyers advertising places to visit.

[Gehn, lord of ages]

- Someone gave them the book.
or
- They found the book somewhere.

Yes, but we're talking about new players here. Not all players are fully familiar with what Uru is (even players from other Myst games), and a start in Relto can be misleading (it doesn't make me think "human exploring a vast underground cavern and its Ages" - the Cleft can give a little of that impression, at least).

It works with new players too.

Okay, I'm not quite sure what you're saying. Perhaps I should clarify. Without any manual, animation sequence, Age extension, etc., starting in Relto can confuse new players. It is a very unique Age, and doesn't exactly make most people think "I'm myself, but exploring an archaeological dig with Ages and all". This means that they may have a wrong impression of what the game is about (for example, believing themselves to be aliens or fantasy/sci-fi style humans [health points, renaissance/futuristic backstories, etc.]) and may not know how to describe their own "backstory" in a way that makes logical sense in the game world.

For the pillars - what if the event happens to go to Jalak or Kadish? I'm not saying the event would be on or about the pillars, but just that these could be dramatically different in each instance and so would present very odd happenings when the instances all merged).

The problems with the pillars is that the ones in your instance and the ones in the event instance may not be at the same height.

Um, yes, exactly. That's the problem. Since an "event" would, by the original plan in this post, make all the private instances into one public instance (or whatever was technically feasible), then there would be confusion like this. Someone is going to have to take a sudden illogical change in position/view for it to work out (since the event might want the pillars one way, and each instance would have the pillars in their own way).

Give a link to the manual/background when you choose to create a new avatar.

There's nothing wrong with a travel guide format for a manual as such, just as long as there's no implication that the player wrote it themselves. It could be reason the that brought you to the cleft - "I read the 'Rough Guide to New Mexico' and thought that'd be a cool place to visit". Maybe something like the tri-fold leaflets you see in places like tourist offices or hotel foyers advertising places to visit.

That's not a bad idea. That way everyone will get a link (as people might think that "new player" information is just going to be worthless and not mark themselves as such) but not be too annoyed. Perhaps this shows up as a colorful picture of the guide itself (instead of just a link that takes them to it) so more people click on it. And maybe after they start the game, it appears on the bookshelf in Relto, or just stays around in their character selection screen (either permanently or until they've been around awhile [until they get a KI?]).