Where to Begin (The Game)

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Gehn, lord of ages
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Re: Where to Begin (The Game)

Post by Gehn, lord of ages » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:23 pm

realXCV wrote: Myst is prerecorded if you look at it as a game. But from an in-game perspective, there's no prerecording at all (when dealing with characters). When Atrus asks you for the white page, OOC it loops until you click on his hand with the page. IC, he waits for the page because he's there. Not an hologram.
What I'm saying is that Myst, or any other such game, is prerecorded in our universe. Things can be both prerecorded and interactive in real life.

Now think of Yeesha's hologram as something like one of these games, in the Uru universe. Perhaps it too can be made to be prerecorded and interactive in that universe.

The various techniques that things like Myst use in our universe to somewhat realistically simulate such things (like looping the video to make it appear like Atrus is waiting there until you give him the page) in our universe, could be used by Yeesha when she makes her hologram in the Uru universe.
If a player is too slow or hesitant, he just has to restart it. Have you ever watched the whole recording without using the book? There's plenty of time for the player to touch the book.
But there's always the possibility that an explorer could be too slow (hesitating, confused, injured, whatever - tons of IC possibilities), and wouldn't it be better for Yeesha to not frustrate these people if she could? It would be a little bit of convenience for them, like the back and forward arrows in web browsers (people using the internet don't need it, and many might not have to use them, but they're put there to convenience those who might find it easier with them). This would also make sure that other people couldn't just come in after the explorer links and (accidentally or on purpose) skip the whole journey IC.
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Re: Where to Begin (The Game)

Post by realXCV » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:44 pm

There's a limit at being too slow. If the player never touch the book, will it stay open forever? In Myst, Atrus endlessly waits for the page but in Riven, Gehn doesn't stay still with the book in front of you until you use it. Same thing with Myst III, Myst IV and Uru. There should be a time limit.


And people should learn that the back and forward arrows in web browsers are very useful.

Gehn, lord of ages
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Re: Where to Begin (The Game)

Post by Gehn, lord of ages » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:49 pm

realXCV wrote:There's a limit at being too slow. If the player never touch the book, will it stay open forever? In Myst, Atrus endlessly waits for the page but in Riven, Gehn doesn't stay still with the book in front of you until you use it. Same thing with Myst III, Myst IV and Uru. There should be a time limit.
Yeah, I think it should also turn off after a certain time if nothing happens (I mean, what if the explorer just leaves or dies or something?). Still, by having a hologram loop, Yeesha can have this time be longer without having it stay open unnecessarily once an explorer has gone through and without having to record it as long (and we can use it for OOC crowd control).
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Re: Where to Begin (The Game)

Post by realXCV » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:08 pm

The whole recording could also be modified so that the two parts are merged into one and the book becomes available at the end like the journey cloth in the first recording. In ABM, when you use the book (working hologram book :roll: ) you link to the rainy cleft where you meet the real Yeesha who make it rain. The imager is not working in that cleft. In MOUL, the real Yeesha is replaced by the hologram (strangely, the imager is still not working) which still make it rain.

Gehn, lord of ages
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Re: Where to Begin (The Game)

Post by Gehn, lord of ages » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:57 am

realXCV wrote:The whole recording could also be modified so that the two parts are merged into one and the book becomes available at the end like the journey cloth in the first recording. In ABM, when you use the book (working hologram book :roll: ) you link to the rainy cleft where you meet the real Yeesha who make it rain. The imager is not working in that cleft. In MOUL, the real Yeesha is replaced by the hologram (strangely, the imager is still not working) which still make it rain.
I like that idea. Without the whole meeting-Yeesha-in-person thing, the link (at that precise moment) doesn't seem that necessary to me. The hologram can even include the rain and all (in the hologram itself, I mean). Then you'd link to the rainy Cleft for the end stuff.

But back to the "Where to Begin (The Game)" topic :P ...
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Re: Where to Begin (The Game)

Post by realXCV » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:00 am

Relto.

Gehn, lord of ages
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Re: Where to Begin (The Game)

Post by Gehn, lord of ages » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:10 pm

realXCV wrote:Relto.
I would rather it didn't start in Relto. It's logistically nice, perhaps, but it is also extraordinarily exotic in appearance. First off, we don't want to confuse people about what the Uru universe is like. Secondly, the Cleft had a very good transition from mundane to exotic, preparing people for Relto and helping them understand how the universe worked.

If it were to start in Relto, though, maybe we could have a little animation beforehand showing the avatar getting a Relto book on Earth and linking (so people recognize that they come from a fairly normal Earth, and are introduced to linking). We could also still have a travel brochure type of thing that would give a little background (may be unnecessary with the animation, though).
  • We'd need to have two links from Relto - to the Cleft and to a neighborhood (or some other public Age). How would we distribute these? If the Cleft is on a pedestal outside, and the neighborhood link in the bookshelf, then people might not notice the neighboorhood link. They'd then go through the Cleft alone, without explanation or help (so they might think that the whole game is empty like it, or that they have to get past it to get to populated areas). That's clearly not good. Perhaps a note in the Cleft book?
  • If we instead put the neighboorhood link (or whatever Age if we chose to put some other better public area in its place) in the pedestal, and the Cleft in the bookshelf, then does the Cleft book just disappear when you get the journey pillars? It would make the final gain of the Cleft book rather anticlimactic, I think.
  • Having two pedestals (or two books in the shelf) wouldn't help. There'd be about a 50-50 chance of the person picking the Cleft book first, with the same problems as I mentioned in the first option.
Anyway, if we're going to skip the Cleft, then why not start in a neighborhood? This would give people immediate access to other players, directions to the KI, etc. There could be perhaps an intro animation showing the player linking in (or walking in from the cavern wall [perhaps picking up a Relto book as they come in]), and there could be lots of signs, brochures, and other things explaining what was happening (as well as helpful experienced players).
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Lehm
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Re: Where to Begin (The Game)

Post by Lehm » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:41 pm

I've brought up using the neighborhood as the starting point before. I personally like the idea, but seems there are quite a few that do not. If you did it that way the best way would be to put the cleft as a link left by Yeesha in the classroom perhaps, and then relto would be the reward for finishing it. Of coarse then you'd run into problems such as going to the garden ages without a relto book. Wait was there a link back out of those ages...I can't remember.

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Re: Where to Begin (The Game)

Post by Gehn, lord of ages » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:55 pm

Lehm wrote:I've brought up using the neighborhood as the starting point before. I personally like the idea, but seems there are quite a few that do not. If you did it that way the best way would be to put the cleft as a link left by Yeesha in the classroom perhaps, and then relto would be the reward for finishing it.
I don't exactly dislike the neighborhood idea, but I'd prefer the Cleft (mainly because it's less exotic).

I think a lot of people wouldn't want a link from the neighborhood to the Cleft, because it would be linking in the same Age.
Of coarse then you'd run into problems such as going to the garden ages without a relto book. Wait was there a link back out of those ages...I can't remember.
I think bigger problems would be Relto sharing (same with many of the public Cleft or near-Cleft ideas - maybe just have it so people without Relto's just can't go to another person's Relto), and maybe the Nexus.
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Re: Where to Begin (The Game)

Post by Mac_Fife » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:12 pm

I guess really there are two "starting points" to consider: "Start the game" (per the thread topic) and "Re-join the game". For re-joining, Relto or a 'hood both seem OK and rational to me, and I don't see a reason why that couldn't actually be a choice you make when you select your avvie and click the button; provide two start buttons; one for solo and one for multiplayer. For a new avatar, Solo takes you to the traditional cleft start, Multi takes you to whatever eventually gets decided upon here. For an established avatar, Solo goes to Relto, Multi goes to your 'hood.

I'm sure it's not a s simple as that though ;)
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