Relationship GoW - OpenUru.org

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Lyrositor
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Relationship GoW - OpenUru.org

Post by Lyrositor » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:15 pm

I've been trying to puzzle out the details... What exactly is the current relationship between the Guild of Writers and OpenUru.org? Both have their own fork of CWE, both have an open-source server replacement, both are made up of developers... From what I understand, the GoW CWE fork is for testing brand-new elements. Are any of these changes getting filtered back into OpenUru.org, and vice-versa? Is there cooperation, enmity, friendly competition, etc. between the other two groups? I'm asking just to better understand the current situation here.

P.S.: Sorry if my questions are stupid at this point (eight months after OS release). :oops:
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Re: Relationship GoW - OpenUru.org

Post by branan » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:01 pm

Clearly nobody wants to touch this one. Maybe that should answer your question ;)

At this point I think "peaceful coexistence" is the best term. Neither group is intentionally trying to upset the other, but our priorities and processes are different enough that there's still friction, and not a lot is happening code-wise. Obviously we want our fixes to make it to OU and eventually to Cyan (and hopefully those who consider themselves OU members want our fixes), but it's kind of a slow process.

Recently we've had good luck with the content license proposal, so hopefully that's a sign of things to come.

And of course for the past couple months Rarified has been busy with Minkata and Hoikas and I have been working on Gehn. That's dropped the "try to merge some stuff" priority a little bit on both sides.

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Re: Relationship GoW - OpenUru.org

Post by Lyrositor » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:52 pm

Okay, I got the feeling this subject was kind of touchy. :oops:

Well I can only hope things work out for the best. Personally, as a novice user of open-source Uru, I'm under the impression that the GoW has simplified the process of compiling, installing, etc. (e.g. use of CMake and Express editions, convenient server.ini instead of compiling with keys, and so on). I mean, so far I've only been able to install MOSS (and THAT was easy, actually, I just made a lot of stupud mistakes), so I'm getting the impression that OpenUru.org is focusing mostly on more general open-source projects and maintaining the link with Cyan, while the Guild of Writers is mostly focusing on moving forward with development. I don't want to denigrate any of the work done by both parties, I'm just laying out my impressions as a newcomer (which may also echo those of other potential "newbies" to Uru's open-source effort).

Is there anyone who could confirm, deny or correct my feelings? :| I'm trying to figure out if there's anything I can develop, and I'm trying to choose where I should develop (since I'm new at this, I guess I'd be most interested in working on making things easier for new users like me; thus did I try to create an easy-to-use MOSS installation script, an average user accessible shard...).
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Re: Relationship GoW - OpenUru.org

Post by Mac_Fife » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:31 pm

You're probably not that far off the mark, Lyrositor. While MOSS developments may well originate through OpenUru.org we expect that most of the client-side development will come from coders outside of OU and that means predominantly, but not exclusively, the GoW/H'uru folks. So, in answer to Branan's "hopefully", not only do we want the Writer's fixes, you could say that we're reliant on them.

OpenUru.org is not "a group of coders" per se (nor is the Guild of Writers - they cover much more than that, but they can explain what they are or are not much better than I could): OU was really set up to provide resources for various disparate projects that needed a home and loosely fell under the banner of being an "open" project, where each project would provide it's own "staff". Pressuring for an open source Uru was one particular project. Obviously, with the release of CWE and MOSS and the remit from Cyan to maintain a MOULa compatible fork of CWE, then those have become the primary projects.

We'd like to get more active involvement from some people like at the Writer's (effectively to staff the CWE project), but we need to set out out what help we're looking for first: That's WIP but the person doing it has just started a new job and that needs his full attention right now, but it is coming. And rarified has also just started a new job, so he's heavily committed on that too. Uru may be important, but putting food on the table is a bigger priority ;) .

The Gehn shard is clearly going to take the attention of Hoikas, Branan, etc., for a while too but once all these "distractions" are out of the way I'd like to think we'll see some closer cooperation between the groups.
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Re: Relationship GoW - OpenUru.org

Post by Lyrositor » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:53 pm

So is there anything I can do? I've got about an hour or two of spare computer time each day, maybe more. I'd like to contribute to OpenUru.
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Re: Relationship GoW - OpenUru.org

Post by Deledrius » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:22 am

I can't speak for anyone else, but by my observations here I think the best way to help (if you're not a programmer; boy howdy do we all need more of those around here in the Uru community) is to assist in integration and communication between the various groups (and not just these two, but the independents as well). Also, finding new and fresh blood... err.. I mean talent.

From my perspective (these are not exclusive, but simply an overall focus):
OU is very managerial. GoW is very developmental. (I mean no offense. OU members have obviously done development. MOSS is a great testament to this. GoW has management of the group, loose as it may be. As I said, I'm talking about focus) This is primarily an outcome of the various positions and histories of the group. Personally I think it's terrific we have both styles because each fills a need the other lacks or has less interest in spending time on, and as we are all (to my knowledge; at least I certainly am!) volunteers, it's important for us to be playing to our strengths and interests.

The touchiness you sensed has come about from when these differing methodologies sometimes clash. We have differing ideological perspectives, as individuals and groups. Also, one may notice that the Uru community as a whole is often less than harmonious due to its vastly diverse nature, and this shows here as much as everywhere else. Fortunately we all have (roughly) the same goals, and it seems that the reality of that situation may prevail. One can hope, as we continue to all work together for the improvements we've all waited and worked so long to achieve.

There's much to be done, in pretty much every level from raw coding, to new content, to figuring out how best to get these items back into mainline Cyan's hands, as well as the things we still need from them to do these things to the best of our abilities. In that sense, perhaps ask not what you can do to help, but rather what can't you do? ;) Find something that's already being done by someone who is overloaded (pretty much everyone, OU/GoW/otherwise) and offer to help. If it's within your talents to do so, of course, it will be appreciated.

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Re: Relationship GoW - OpenUru.org

Post by Lyrositor » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:18 pm

Okay, I believe I have a good picture of the situation now. :)
My wiki user page lists what I consider my talents on a purely technical level. I'm also a decent writer and I like to help out, especially those who have fallen into the same pitfalls as I have. In my school, I'm considered the local computer expert, from anything to hacking (white hat style) to troubleshooting to programming. I've played Uru extensively (maybe not quite as much as others) and the first four Myst games (although I sometimes used walkthroughs, especially for Riven and Revelation IV). I've read the trilogy of five, if that can be considered a talent. ;) And, mostly, I've got TIME, although it would be kind of on and off (right now I've got a pretty good chunk of it).
So, what can I do, for either group?
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Re: Relationship GoW - OpenUru.org

Post by JWPlatt » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:04 pm

As Mac says, we are working on a list of things to do. In the meantime, there are a few things somewhere on the big list that come to mind for you.
  • One thing that can help both groups is to reconcile code and structural differences between the H'uru fork and OU's so that changesets can be more easily merged. Unicode is a good example. But it will only help if you are already capable or are willing to invest in educating yourself for the most part. If you need to ask everyone a ton of questions to get there, developers are distracted from what they really want to get done. Try to find a good balance that gives developers more time for real development.
  • Chogon just posted a page on the MOULa site and a thread on the forums that promotes MOULa shards. I hope it results in interest to create more shards. Assuming it works, there will be more questions from folks just like you about how to get a shard operational. Maybe you could assemble all the help we already have and add everything you have discovered along the way to an expanded Q&A by category about the questions and problems people encounter.
  • One more thing is creating Doxygen templates for every CWE class that doesn't have one, and making those directives that exist more complete. You won't need to know nearly so much to do that work, but you will become much more experienced with the classes as you go through them. Wax on, wax off - so to speak.
I hope that helps.
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Re: Relationship GoW - OpenUru.org

Post by Lyrositor » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:06 am

All right, as soon as I've finished setting up Lyros Shard, I'm going to start work on that FAQ (wiki: MOSS/FAQ, for example?), then when that's done I'll take a look at Doxygen work. What repository would this involve, mostly: CWE, CWE-ou, or H-uru CWE?
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Re: Relationship GoW - OpenUru.org

Post by JWPlatt » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:49 am

Cool! :)

My choice would be to get an account on Bitbucket and clone our CWE-ou repo mirror, then submit pull requests with completed works. Please avoid clicking D'Lanor's big fat button.

We'll get back to you on where to put the Q&A when you have something. Search this site and the wiki for existing Q&A, and even MOULa. Search for Tai'lahr's posts which might have some things that apply, or at least some good format examples for you. She's done a bunch of good, helpful things like that.
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