Relevance

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JWPlatt
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Relevance

Post by JWPlatt » Wed May 20, 2009 7:01 pm

Greetings,

I'm going to go out on a limb here. I hope you will excuse the intrusion and consider this a request from a fan, not whatever else I am here.

Veralun posted this today on MOUL:
veralun wrote:With all respect, we now by now that SL and There have communities.
But this is not the subject here.
And even if it looks like the Cavern, it is not the Cavern.
It would be great if we have a thread without SL or other platforms.

It is so understandable that the community asks for the Cavern.
We are all longing to it.

It is fine some ppl find an alternative for it, but please leave the SL and There out in these discussions.

Thanks.
http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 757#292757

My respnse:
JWPlatt wrote:The Uru community is working hard in other realms to maintain itself for the purpose of keeping Uru relevant in our lives. Your request, therefore, is supremely unreasonable.
My request:

I would like to be able to reference links to this project. But I do not yet feel I can without a substantially increased effort to document your work here in this project. Please, if you possibly can, make a significant multimedia case/documentary to the community about what you are doing.

I've seen some news and an announcement here of a meeting, but not documentation of what Nalates posted about today in one of her numerous posts (that girl is busy!):
Nalates wrote:The organization of fans and the use of guilds has been a hotly debated topic since the guilds began forming. In Eder D’Uru a new set of guilds are being formed to serve similar but different purposes. People are renting places to live in within Eder D’Uru and Eder Gira. So, there is a sort of home owners association for them. Rent and land ownership provides funding for the server. The group found a charitable organization that provides low cost servers for themed builds in SL in return for promotion of their charity. In all it is a good example of what fans can do now to figure out how to have a viable Uru. It is proving to be an excellent means of funding the server and having free play for the majority of fans.
http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 748#292748
Perfect speed is being there.

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Dot
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Re: Relevance

Post by Dot » Wed May 20, 2009 8:05 pm

JWPlatt, I too was disturbed by that exchange. I'm worried that it might reflect a narrowing of understanding of what 'Uru' is to be.

To my mind, Uru needs to include the activities and creations of the dispersed communities in SL and in There, as well as the work done in writing and checking fan ages for Uru:CC and the vital planning, discussions and work carried on here and in other outlets.

SL and There provide places where we can try out the social and community aspects of the game, just as Nalates was suggesting.

All the work that has been done by Uru fans in SL and There over the past year has become part of the Uru story -- maybe not that of the D'ni, but certainly of the present-day efforts of restoration and community building. If U-R-U is to have any real meaning, there needs to be acceptance that 'Uru the concept' is thought of very differently in different sections of the community, and those understandings are just as valid.

I remember Gondar's signature when the closure was first announced:
Uru is more than the cavern, than the game, than what Cyan made. Uru is the community, is all of us. As long as we are a community, Uru is never truly dead.

Uru will live on.

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Nalates
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Re: Relevance

Post by Nalates » Thu May 21, 2009 6:34 pm

Yay! JWP and I have fundamental agreement on something… (teasing)

Veralun and I have had exchanges, posts and pm’s, and until some other moderators joined the team I felt MO:UL was a very unfriendly place for those playing in SL. So, I am not too surprised by that post. It has been awhile since I saw a SL attack.

That Andrew was talking about wanting to be with friends in Cavern seems to have been completely lost on Veralum. That I responded with information on how to find friends now also seems to have been lost. All that was targeted was the SL parts, which is why I still consider SL Derangement Syndrome to be an accurate term if not very PC.

From talking with other residents, I know several that have the same feelings regarding MOUL forum. UO has its problems too. I believe many fans fear THERE, SL or some other game will steal Uru fans away and fail to realize what is actually happening. Thus the negative reactions, which often devolve into personal attacks.

JWP, I think, accurately describes what is happening in the community and that many in it are failing to see the larger picture. I also think OpenUru.org (I think JWP mean OU by ‘this project’) is ahead of most other forums in objectively considering various changes to Uru and openness to the experiments going on in other places. So, I link to here and to various topics where appropriate.

When I saw the guilds being beaten up about how they were power hungry and Cyan’s guilds were taken over by those trying to control the fans… I got upset. I was around for the founding of the GoC. I simply know better. I have ever since advised guild members to respond to such posts where ever they see them. Get the truth out there whenever there is a negative post placed. Challenge the poster. We have two long threads on GoMa where I challenged attacks on the GoMa. (Long boring read to most so I’m not linking it) I still see occasional guild attack posts and negative comments but I think that effort is paying off.

Something like that needs to be done with the ideas of open and closed community and other virtual worlds. Repeated posting of the ideas that Uru is now larger than a single game, that Uru fans play in more than one game and the forums are not just for one game but for a Myst Style game community are needed. Repeated exposure to ideas convinces people.

Moving to that ‘open’ model provides Cyan with an easy way to move fans to or at least interest them in any new project they take on. It also provides a way for fans to stay together. It is the possible unity many claim to want.

Jeff in SL and the Eder D’Uru community held their first New Guilds official meeting. The minutes will be posted somewhere. I suspect here in the Eder D’uru Project. I’ll probably see it in the D’ni Voice in SL.

Image

More and larger images

I think Jeff’s throne is way funny and cute. I also think those bitter people with control issues will pick on it rather than see the humor in it. Oh well, identify and label them for future reference.

The ECR&D is a research group in SL. We have some ongoing projects which I’m dragging my feet on to see how Jeff’s guilds and the use of the project here work. For now we have a forum for Myst-Uru-SL ECR&D stuff. I’m only promoting it among ECR&D members for now. We considered a larger forum for all SL Uruites. But, its waiting on me to move ahead or scrap the idea.

I blog almost everyday. (work is slow) Nalates Myst-Uru-SL Blog has more information on the goings on of Uruites in SL and Myst-Uru-SL issues.

Edit: 2m/3d/10y - I updated this because the ECR&D is no longer active and the forum closed. The mission was pretty well complete. In many ways the Hypergrid Section of this forum is replacing the work ECR&D was doing.
Last edited by Nalates on Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AlKaera
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Re: Relevance

Post by AlKaera » Fri May 22, 2009 6:01 pm

Hey all, glad to be here. It's also nice that an opinion can be given without it always going through the PC filter of skin thickness. :lol:
I essentially agree with the three of you without falling into a sense of 'pack' mentality. I would, however, submit two thoughts.

The MOUL forums ARE run by Cyan for their games/development/whatever content. If discussions about the games, SL, Guild Wars, There, WoW are frowned upon with mod notices and thread locking, they have that right, whether we think it narrowminded, exclusive, boneheaded or not.

Secondly, the Open-Source Myst Online: Uru Live & Fan Created Ages section of MOUL should at least have an 'Off Topic' section to allow discussions on community development in other, non Uru worlds like SL and There. I mean, UCC, by definition, is a concept understood by Cyan and it's forum mods so where's the beef?
The more the community is involved in trying to emulate what content there is, or create/design new content, may deepen fan understanding of how stuff works or how it should in the next iteration. Also, and I only suspect this, many things learned as the communities fan out, just might come back as new ideas on how to solve existing problems, or overcome some hurdles that have been found to shutdown the cavern multiple times.
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JWPlatt
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Re: Relevance

Post by JWPlatt » Fri May 22, 2009 6:27 pm

Nice to have you around, AlKaera. 8-)

My post was not a complaint about how a mod runs a Cyan forum, but a pointed call for this Eder D'Uru project to pick up some steam. The fact that finding the support of friends in SL was considered off-topic demonstrates much work is needed. Not in what they are doing in SL, which is doing great, but in documenting here what they are doing. That would make their work easily and immediately accessible to everyone, perhaps especially to those who avoid SL and do not see the point.

This project is in a great position to make a difference. It has the advantage of not needing to wait for open source to do what it is doing. And it can convince those without the vision, which would be my real complaint, that there is relevance. The history and the significance of the first, post-Ubisoft Uru Diaspora seems to have been lost in the memories of some. The Eder D'Uru project, in producing something of a documentary, running commentary, and tour here, can kick those memories in the pants and bring meaning and more acceptance to what people do elsewhere.

Eder D'Uru is going further than usual with their experiments with community and governance. Ahra Pahts, for example, is an ambitous age project at the GoW. Eder D'Uru takes that idea much further by laying meaningful community structure on top of pure artistry and technical development. Just like Uru. And apparently, they are willing to explore what works and change what doesn't.

Not to speak for the project members, but I suspect they could use some help so that their efforts on the web here are not such a distraction from the core work they are trying to get done. If anyone would like to contact them - such as those talented with documentary work - to contribute to their efforts, both here and in SL, and they are agreeable, please do.
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JeffLewis
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Re: Relevance

Post by JeffLewis » Fri May 22, 2009 8:33 pm

Definately glad to see discussion going on here. Yes, we're struggling a bit to document things. I blame myself completely for this, as I am not used to documenting steps of projects, or even taking images in SL (as it costs to save them into SL, but not out of... I usually forget about the fact you don't have to upload them into the game.)

I just got our formatted chatlog of last Sunday's meeting yesterday and was regrettably distracted by some other stuff going on. (Dagda's back!) I'll post that in the announcement section now.

While we're talking about this subject...

What would you like to see as far as documentation. (This isn't directed just tward JW)

We have a lot of options. We can do simple pictures of progress in construction with text captions, we have lots of fun times on the side too that we can provide pictures for. We're up for about anything. Let us know what you folks would like to see as far as behind the scenes, or even not behind the scenes. We're open to share and explore lots of different methods.

Keep in mind though that we have some behind the scenes stuff we may not want to share right away. Though whatever choice we make to document things will be done and released a short time after the release of the project. We like to preserve our projects, as they may change drastically along the way from ideas of grandeur (sp?) to something a bit more simple. So we're willing to show these changes after the fact of release, but would prefer to keep some of them hidden until release purely because we could be pressured into doing things a certain way, when it could wind up being impossible. We'll document as much as we can, and as JW said, if you can help us, feel free. We do have some resident (or SL users even!) blog spots open for those willing to help write about their experiences with us! So far we only have DeAnn with us for that, but I'm open to more folks. Let me know! Thanks!

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JWPlatt
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Re: Relevance

Post by JWPlatt » Fri May 22, 2009 9:07 pm

JeffLewis wrote:What would you like to see as far as documentation.
My model of thought has always been the kind of things PBS would produce for a continuing, in-depth documentary series about Habitat For Humanity. The personal side, the struggles and efforts, the rewards, the victories, the images and commentary, the technology, etc. Blogs and webpages (ask for FTP account) could handle most of this in terms of things like formatted text and screenshots. Video is also possible if someone is inspired. As you offer, the process would be very interesting, just as major motion picture websites have an ongoing appeal for all the little things they do to produce the end product. Imagine if Cyan had done this.

I too would be interested in other thoughts about it.
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Re: Relevance

Post by JeffLewis » Sun May 24, 2009 5:26 am

One of the team members has a neat mouse thing that allows him to make a flycam sorta look. It's handy for making videos. I have a fondness for editing. Maybe we can start a sort of machinima series? "Dirtiest deadliest job builder catch?" Has a nice ring... :P

In all seriousness, video would be fun, if I can get my team to voice over stuff :P I think me and Dagda would, but not totally sure about the others. Right now I'm thinking the quickest way to get started would be an online photo album sorta thing. What's best. fliker? picasa?

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Re: Relevance

Post by JWPlatt » Sun May 24, 2009 6:00 am

Best? Here, with a little work, of course, to ensure that your work is preserved. I have something already prepared about what I think of online photo sharing and album sites like Photobucket, et al. ;)

Third paragraph:
viewtopic.php?p=1711#p1711

Any project can have an FTP account for their project website on a subdomain here. There is also asset storage available for more general sharing between resources and projects. One example currently is Mac_Fife's management of the wiki asset store, basically a dedicated storage area for all media (pictures, audio, etc) materials on the OpenURU.org wiki.
Perfect speed is being there.

Tai'lahr
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Re: Relevance

Post by Tai'lahr » Mon May 25, 2009 7:17 am

Why I haven't participated in this project... let me count the ways:

1) Time: RL aside, most of my time is spent working on projects for Eder D'Uru in SL. I'm not a fast builder, scripter, or writer. It just boggles my mind that people like Nalates, DeAnn, Jandai and Kerryth run businesses in SL and still find time to blog, write lengthy forum posts and/or socialize in SL. And, have RLs, too! If they'd bottle their secret, I'd spend many lindens to buy it. ;)

2) Technofeeb: When I agreed to participate in this project, I presumed that much of it would consist of forum posts, something with which I'm comfortable and confident in doing. Then, I started being presented with a lot of new things that I'd have to learn to use and my eyes just glazed over.

3) Truth: I know JW was hoping for honest documentation of the project, including the ups and downs, wins and losses, accomplishments and set backs, team work and personality conflicts. But, my forte is putting a positive spin on things. I also fear accidentally revealing something that Jeff isn't ready to reveal (and it's just not practical to run everything by him first) and I fear making statements that will turn out to be inaccurate because I wasn't informed of the facts by Jeff.

I want very much to participate in this project, but I just don’t know where to begin. Perhaps I just need a more defined focus of the assignment. I promise to give it some more thought (and consult with Jeffy ;)).

Btw, I visited the GoMaintainers new build, Devokan, today and was very impressed. I couldn’t stay long and only explored one building, but it was so well done that it fueled my interest in seeing what they bring to Uru.

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