Finding a New Home

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Tai'lahr
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Finding a New Home

Post by Tai'lahr » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:29 pm

With the closing of Eder D'Uru, Devokan on the brink, and many other Uru builds in Second Life struggling to stay afloat, there is much talk among the D'ni Refugees in SL about trying out one of the new Open Source grids. Whether this is worthy of a new project section here or not, I don't know, but I'm exhausted from all the IMs and chatter about it, so I'm starting this thread to give everyone an opportunity to voice their opinions about the various options.

From what I understand (and, please don't hesitate to point out my uninformed errors here), there are many new Open Source grids based on Second Life code. The options range from having a personal sandbox on your personal computer (which I believe Nalates has said she has) to something like the Builders of Arda grid which is open to the public and is much like Second Life, but with a greatly reduced cost.

I visited the Builders of Arda grid briefly this morning and was impressed by its similarities to Second Life. I could use the same viewer (although I understand other viewers might be necessary to perform certain tasks such as bringing items from SL); the interface was the same, etc. The greatest difference is in the cost. A full sim that cost $295/month in SL only cost $25/month in the BoA grid and there's no set up fee.

Naturally, since it's still very new, there's not all the things you'd find to buy in Second Life, so vanity may have to be set aside until skin and hair creators migrate over. ;) But, it seems like it should be appealing to builders and scripters who just want to do their thing without paying an arm and a leg to do it. Another draw back would be the lack of people to see your creations - and, what's the point of building if no one ever sees it? But, if some are willing to be pioneers, then perhaps others will follow.

If anyone else has other OS grids they have visited, I hope they'll post their findings and opinion here.

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Dot
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Re: Finding a New Home

Post by Dot » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:52 pm

You might find some of the info we found out in GoMa helpful here. It is in the section on Open Sim:
http://www.guildofmaintainers.org/Forum ... .php?f=137

As Nalates wrote in the opening post:
This section is for Myst-Uru fans and others interested in Open Simulator.

The OSGrid and its many cousins are included. Whether you are on the main OSGrid, a similar grid, hypergrid or just running a stand alone sim on your home workstation you are welcome.

Whether you are a Myst-Uru fan or have found your way here by some other path, welcome.
Among other topics, we've touched on making a standalone sim to work on a computer at home.
Tentative first steps on the OSgrid are here.

Some discussions are in the private forum used for storyline development in Devokan. Once that part of the story is out of the way, I'll sort that information out.

sister72
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Re: Finding a New Home

Post by sister72 » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:13 pm

The difference between the costs in SL and the Open Source grids certainly appears much cheaper. However, if there is to be a fair comparison, a match to the appropriate prim allowances must be made. For instance; a full sim in SL for 15000 prims per month costs $295US, a Homestead in SL with 3750 prims per month costs $125US. The Builders of Arda costs are as follows, for comparision:

Arda Grid Sim Purchase Order Options:

Option 1 - 3,750 Prim Sim: $12.50 USD a month

Option 2 - 7,500 Prim Sim: $25.00 USD a month

Option 3 - 15,000 Prim Sim: $50.00 USD a month

Option 4 - 30,000 Prim Sim: $100.00 USD a month

Option 5 - 45,000 Prim Sim: $150.00 USD a month

Inworldz Options:

Private Isles come with a range of prims from 35,000 to 45,000, with the smallest allowable prim being .001 x .001 x .001 to the largest allowable of 128 x 128 x 128, priced at $75/month, with no setup fees attached.

Mainlands are restricted to PG content only, and do not have full Estate controls. You may not assign an estate manager, and terraforming is restricted to +/- 15m. Prim count is limited to 30,000 with the smallest allowable prim being .001 x .001 x .001 to the largest allowable of 128 x 128 x 128. Mainland pricing is at $60/month with no setup fees. This will be changing in the future.

Certainly much cheaper than SL, but the offset with SL is the potential audience and diversity, which, I feel would be severely lacking at this point in time, in the Open Source grids. Other than M.O.U.L players, who would find out about the builds via SL or in specific forums, there would be a limited audience to come look at the builds.

ghaelen
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Re: Finding a New Home

Post by ghaelen » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:42 am

I have had a homestead sim (3750 prims) on the Arda grid for about a month, for reasons other than Uru, and I like it very much so far. I was taken with the quality of the initial welcome center and the builds that greeted my artist's eye. My initial interest was educational, and as I cannot afford a similar sim in SL proper, this was, to me, the perfect solution. I am less concerned with the amount of traffic, the economy, or even the fashionable wardrobe allotted to my avatar on entrance. I am interested in experiencing the possibilities of teaching in-world and the many capabilities sim ownership brings me. The lack of fees, fees, fees is also a huge plus to me. I have been using the Meerkat viewer, and it works well with my lower-end graphics card. Backing up linked objects and then importing them into the Arda Grid is fantastic (they must be full perm, of course). I also love the fact that I am not limited to 10x10 object building limits.

Let me say these are open source projects, (both the viewer and the grid, and there are some bugs, just as there are in SL proper. Also, you won't find 'stuff' that exists in SL. That can be both negative and can be positive. There is far less lag on Arda (on my nearly empty island, especially).

I am interested in the possibility of joining more explorers in the OS 'instances' of the Uru community. I can see many possibilities for building, puzzling, and storytelling, and I plan to work on another Healer's Retreat there. (Can't have too many places for healing ;)) My favorite things to work on are the landscaping, terraforming, and outdoor scenes. So fewer perms in my homestead sim works just fine for me right now. I'd like the new Retreat to be at Arda, and near other Uru builds, but I'm open to other grid possibilities with similar costs.
sister72 wrote:
Inworldz Options:

Private Isles come with a range of prims from 35,000 to 45,000, with the smallest allowable prim being .001 x .001 x .001 to the largest allowable of 128 x 128 x 128, priced at $75/month, with no setup fees attached.

Mainlands are restricted to PG content only, and do not have full Estate controls. You may not assign an estate manager, and terraforming is restricted to +/- 15m. Prim count is limited to 30,000 with the smallest allowable prim being .001 x .001 x .001 to the largest allowable of 128 x 128 x 128. Mainland pricing is at $60/month with no setup fees. This will be changing in the future.
Is this another grid?

I've explored OSgrid and Reaction grid. OSgrid simply didn't appeal to me, although I toyed briefly with the idea of setting up my own. Reaction Grid is a commercial site, and has similar support and pricing as Arda. There are several large, educational projects going on there. But, because my educational project is a prototype rather than a finished product, I chose Arda for the artistry, the initial beauty, and the fact that their lowest sim price was one easily affordable for me. And no set-up fee. Plus, the grid owner was very helpful, as was another person I met shortly after my arrival. Nothing like an old-style Uru-type greeter to make one's day. :)
".... those things that are conceived in compassion are going to work....
.... those things that are conceived in unity are going to work...."

~Ancient Healer (maybe D'ni)

Moula3.2 KI #64299
OU Minkata KI #1504

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Dot
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Re: Finding a New Home

Post by Dot » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:15 am

sister72 wrote:Certainly much cheaper than SL, but the offset with SL is the potential audience and diversity, which, I feel would be severely lacking at this point in time, in the Open Source grids. Other than M.O.U.L players, who would find out about the builds via SL or in specific forums, there would be a limited audience to come look at the builds.
One of my hopes with the GoMa/Devokan project was to establish in SL Devokan an IC and in-game place to find out how to link to the new builds in the OS grids.

Many of the visitors to and photobloggers about SL Devokan have been non-MOUL players (search for 'Devokan' in Google images for examples), even before the sim was added to the SL hotspot list in November 2009. This implies it could be a way to inform potential new players that there are more builds out there.

There was also a hope that it might be possible to cross-subsidise costs on SL Devokan by renting out as a middleman reasonably priced sims on the OS grid to others -- a realistic and practical way of supporting immersive Myst/Uru-style builds within SL. It is also a method already used outside the Myst/Uru community.

Looking at the SL forums, there is a great deal of frustration and anger building up among SL's customers, especially over the pricing of land and the treatment of homestead owners. Will 2010 be the year when the open-source grids take off as a result? I don't know. But it might be as well to plan for it.

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Nalates
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Re: Finding a New Home

Post by Nalates » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:22 pm

This came up in my Twitter.

Blue Mars Price Comparison

I gave more Blue Mars Price Comparisons in my blog.

I'm going to have to run down how to change the size of Open Sim's. I know we can make them bigger than the default 256m square.

Edit: ----- Added

Here are some more VW possibilities... Opensource/Free Virtual World Platforms - Part 2/2
Nalates
GoW, GoMa and GoA apprentice - Guildmaster GoC - SL = Nalates Urriah

RubyODegee
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Re: Finding a New Home

Post by RubyODegee » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:26 am

I am chiming in here, because I've also ventured into Arda. I find it to my liking. The price is right, any terraforming limitation does not prevent me from doing exactly as I choose to my land, and I can import what I need to import. I imported my favorite textures and went right to work.

Diversity and visitors or not, I am a firm believer that, if you build it well (with devotion and attention to detail) they will come. Add a page turning story to inspire, a bit of music and a few mysteries. It is what visitors I know what to see.

In my personal opine, Devokan is a lovely SL build. It is the closet build to what I imagine a Cyanesque build would look like on a SL-like grid. I think Dot keeps a watchful eye over Devokan, and its story lines. All the power and blessings to her for holding firm. Whenever and wherever she decides to go next with her visions, I am sure it will work out in everyone's best interests.

It is my hope that more Uru writers, who want to extend story or write ages will consider open source, because it is economical and family friendly (PG). Uru is that too. The 2 parcels I purchased/leased at Arda is $25.00 a month for 7500 prims. It will take me awhile to use these prims wisely. The lower cost means that I do not feel obligated to rush my build or story concepts. I can let the parcels sit there, until I can pull together good quality textures, and a sound structure - what I need to satisfy my own requirements for a build. No burning need for tip jar, a sales kiosk or another way to fund my project. It takes the pressure to "throw something up" off.

Not to say that my build will please everyone or anyone but me. If it does not please a someone, the someone will visit someplace else. :D

Open source gives "potential" writers a chance to hone their craft without breaking their piggy banks completely.

Note: I've never been a big fan of SL. It has taken me years to get back to the grid, after a perfectly awful experience in the spring of 2004. What caused my awful experience is still at SL, but there are more life/story options to choose from, than there once were. I can stay out of the way of what dismays me. I maintain a parcel on Second Life proper for the purpose of learning how the system works, and about any new building tools that come along.

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Dot
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Re: Finding a New Home

Post by Dot » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:45 am

Ruby, what you say chimes with my own thoughts. (By the way, thank you for the kind words about Devokan, which is a shared project with Paislee, whose keen artistic eye created much of the beauty there.)

Unfortunately, because of the very high cost of Devokan in SL, and the severe difficulty we have experienced in interesting potential partners to work alongside us, Paislee and I have reluctantly decided we will need to let it go over the next couple of months and to focus our attention elsewhere. This will probably be on the OSgrid initially, so that others with the expertise to run home servers can more easily link them in to the network. But there is nothing to stop us from having outposts elsewhere if that is where the story takes us.

One thing I'm hoping we will be able to do is to explore the methods of teleporting between the various open-sim Myst-Uru areas on different grids, maybe setting up a special hub region using the Hypergrid. Then explorers could link to the hub, and from there use a special portal to the Myst-Uru-friendly builds on the different grids. I'm currently discussing this with JW as a potential project here on OpenUru.

To my mind there would be several aspects:
  • the technical aspects of setting up and running the server software and portal software
  • creating a meaningful inworld model for explorers to use to select destinations and to link (akin to the Nexus in Uru)
  • gathering, organising and keeping up to date the information about the different builds on the various grids, publishing it in-world and on the web
  • publicising the facility among the wider Uru community
Is this something others might be interested in? Are there other aspects that need covering?

RubyODegee
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Re: Finding a New Home

Post by RubyODegee » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:03 pm

All good! :)

This discussion is now posted for a looksee option on MOUL. I am excited we are back in the "game" of discussing options. The transportation from one grid to another is of interest to me as well. And yes, congratulations to Paislee on a job well done too. Of course.:)

Tai'lahr
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Re: Finding a New Home

Post by Tai'lahr » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:45 pm

Dot wrote: One thing I'm hoping we will be able to do is to explore the methods of teleporting between the various open-sim Myst-Uru areas on different grids, maybe setting up a special hub region using the Hypergrid. Then explorers could link to the hub, and from there use a special portal to the Myst-Uru-friendly builds on the different grids. I'm currently discussing this with JW as a potential project here on OpenUru.

To my mind there would be several aspects:
  • the technical aspects of setting up and running the server software and portal software
  • creating a meaningful inworld model for explorers to use to select destinations and to link (akin to the Nexus in Uru)
  • gathering, organising and keeping up to date the information about the different builds on the various grids, publishing it in-world and on the web
  • publicising the facility among the wider Uru community
Is this something others might be interested in? Are there other aspects that need covering?
This sounds like a worthwhile project that I might be interested in, but I have to ask: Is this only for the "good stuff" i.e., the Myst-Uru type ages and builds? Will Myst-Uru recreations quality? And, what if I just want to create a playground with fun and games that have no relationship to Myst-Uru? (You've seen my stuff; you know it's not very polished.) Can a link be included just because I'm a community member?

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