Meanwhile in the interim I got a dirtsand shard to work but it cannot (correction I cannot get it to work with Windows10) so I am re looking at trying the MOSS option and I am back to all of the questions I had at the start of this thread.
The OpenUru.org wiki instructions for building a MOSS shard are vague and the Distribution Specific instructions for Linux relate to Ubuntu release 10.04.4 and as we are now on release 18.04 it is probably due an update.
At the last time of trying
sudo apt-get install mercurial
reported application unavailable/not found
I have posted my questions over at the Guild of Writers forum as well as here because I am open to answers wherever I can get them.
I have learned somethings from my dirtsand experience but at the core I do not actually care which version I get to run.
This is as much about figuring out a method and writing a Noob proof instruction set so others do not give up in frustration.
Moss build questions
Moderator: OpenUru.org Moderators
Re: Moss build questions
I still have this issue getting MOSS but I have a fix for dirtsand access from Windows 10
Re: Moss build questions
Sorry I haven’t been more attentive.
I’ve got a big RL project in progress and have not had time for Uru related stuff for a couple of weeks now.
I will try to review this thread again, but it may be another week or two. Trying to beat the weather.
_R
I’ve got a big RL project in progress and have not had time for Uru related stuff for a couple of weeks now.
I will try to review this thread again, but it may be another week or two. Trying to beat the weather.
_R
One of the OpenUru toolsmiths... a bookbinder.
Re: Moss build questions
Its less of an issue since I have managed to get the dirtsand shard working from Windows10 but I would still like to do a Noob version of instructions for the MOSS shard.
Once I have both I am going to do some research on the ability and differences when it comes to using Korman with both dirtsand and MOSS.
Once I have both I am going to do some research on the ability and differences when it comes to using Korman with both dirtsand and MOSS.
Re: Moss build questions
OK I am about to vanish down the rabbit hole of MOSS in the same way I did for dirtsand in the hope of producing a Noob compatible instruction document.
I have grabbed the MOSS/Setup instructions and as usual they have the clarity of a good cup of Tea with some bits of biscuit from a dunking floating around in it.
My plan is to use a fresh install of Ubuntu 18.04 updated and upgraded as a start point.
For my hardware I plan on swapping out the hard drive from my dirtsand build as know this was stable for that dirtsand build.
This means I have a known 64bit AMD server with a good wedge of memory.
I have found the MOSS distribution specific instructions and I have extracted the Ubuntu Linux set just to show it was written a while ago it talks about Ubuntu release 10.04.4 and it talks about installs that have new names and a mess of stuff that is clearly out of date.
The second block of install mentions
sudo apt-get install murcurial
This was the instruction that diverted me down the dirtsand path the first time.
http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title ... structions
Pick the bones out of that and be definitive on what we do need to have installed
the page MOSS/Setup page
http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title=MOSS/Setup
Has a bunch of Prerequisites as follows. The sections in black are the original instructions the sections in red are my queries/comments where there is some sort of doubt.
[Prerequisites]
Before you start, assuming you already have a compatible OS, you need to ensure you have the following: I am assuming my Ubuntu 18.04 is adequate and we use the sudo apt-get update and sudo apt-get upgrade to make shure it is up to date
pthreads (almost certainly installed already) I don't know is it?
libiconv (almost certainly installed already) I don't know is it?
OpenSSL (also almost certainly installed) -- you need both the libraries and the development headers if that's separate (I'm looking at you, Debian)
Versions found to work: 1.0.1 – Versions found not to work: 0.9.7 We did not use this with dirtsand but we did add libssl-dev so does that libssl-dev replace OpenSSL as used in MOSS?
Zlib (also probably installed) -- both the library and the development stuff if separate OK for dirtsand we installed zlib1g-dev so would that cover all we need for Zlib
PostgreSQL -- both the sever and client, plus any development packages For dirtsand we installed postgresql and postgresql-contrib does this pair or do we need to specifically install a server and client
libpqxx -- both the library and the development package for dirtsand we used libpq-dev I am thinking this replaces libpqxx
[strike]Versions found to work: 3.1 – Versions found not to work: 4.0[/strike] have to assume this is an irrelevant comment?
gcc, g++, whatever all you need for compiling C++ <shrug>?
If you are compiling from a clone of a Mercurial respository and there is no "configure" script, you also need the autotools: <shrug>?
autoconf
Versions found to work: 2.68 – Versions found not to work: 2.59 <shrug>?
automake Is this cmake?
[strike]Versions found to work: 1.11.3 – Versions found not to work: 1.6.3[/strike] have to assume this is an irrelevant comment?
libtool Is this libreadline-dev?
[strike]Versions found to work: 2.4.2 – Versions found not to work: 1.5[/strike] have to assume this is an irrelevant comment?
[/Prerequisites]
Note my comments in red are pure guesswork and are probably total crap but they are just to show I am trying to understand the instructions even if I am totally off the mark
I know that a lot of this has to do with stuff that would be acquired from the mercurial link and as far as I can understand that is almost the same as github so that mercurial install has an equivalence to the git install we used for dirtsand.
I have refreshed my inquiry over at the OpenUru forum as you are aware I tend not to be concerned where an answer comes from rather that I get an answer that I understand.
In the coming weeks I will also be building a new dirtsand shard in new hardware and that will inform me if there are any updates required to the Noob proof instructions for dirtsand.
I have grabbed the MOSS/Setup instructions and as usual they have the clarity of a good cup of Tea with some bits of biscuit from a dunking floating around in it.
My plan is to use a fresh install of Ubuntu 18.04 updated and upgraded as a start point.
For my hardware I plan on swapping out the hard drive from my dirtsand build as know this was stable for that dirtsand build.
This means I have a known 64bit AMD server with a good wedge of memory.
I have found the MOSS distribution specific instructions and I have extracted the Ubuntu Linux set just to show it was written a while ago it talks about Ubuntu release 10.04.4 and it talks about installs that have new names and a mess of stuff that is clearly out of date.
The second block of install mentions
sudo apt-get install murcurial
This was the instruction that diverted me down the dirtsand path the first time.
http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title ... structions
Pick the bones out of that and be definitive on what we do need to have installed
the page MOSS/Setup page
http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title=MOSS/Setup
Has a bunch of Prerequisites as follows. The sections in black are the original instructions the sections in red are my queries/comments where there is some sort of doubt.
[Prerequisites]
Before you start, assuming you already have a compatible OS, you need to ensure you have the following: I am assuming my Ubuntu 18.04 is adequate and we use the sudo apt-get update and sudo apt-get upgrade to make shure it is up to date
pthreads (almost certainly installed already) I don't know is it?
libiconv (almost certainly installed already) I don't know is it?
OpenSSL (also almost certainly installed) -- you need both the libraries and the development headers if that's separate (I'm looking at you, Debian)
Versions found to work: 1.0.1 – Versions found not to work: 0.9.7 We did not use this with dirtsand but we did add libssl-dev so does that libssl-dev replace OpenSSL as used in MOSS?
Zlib (also probably installed) -- both the library and the development stuff if separate OK for dirtsand we installed zlib1g-dev so would that cover all we need for Zlib
PostgreSQL -- both the sever and client, plus any development packages For dirtsand we installed postgresql and postgresql-contrib does this pair or do we need to specifically install a server and client
libpqxx -- both the library and the development package for dirtsand we used libpq-dev I am thinking this replaces libpqxx
[strike]Versions found to work: 3.1 – Versions found not to work: 4.0[/strike] have to assume this is an irrelevant comment?
gcc, g++, whatever all you need for compiling C++ <shrug>?
If you are compiling from a clone of a Mercurial respository and there is no "configure" script, you also need the autotools: <shrug>?
autoconf
Versions found to work: 2.68 – Versions found not to work: 2.59 <shrug>?
automake Is this cmake?
[strike]Versions found to work: 1.11.3 – Versions found not to work: 1.6.3[/strike] have to assume this is an irrelevant comment?
libtool Is this libreadline-dev?
[strike]Versions found to work: 2.4.2 – Versions found not to work: 1.5[/strike] have to assume this is an irrelevant comment?
[/Prerequisites]
Note my comments in red are pure guesswork and are probably total crap but they are just to show I am trying to understand the instructions even if I am totally off the mark
I know that a lot of this has to do with stuff that would be acquired from the mercurial link and as far as I can understand that is almost the same as github so that mercurial install has an equivalence to the git install we used for dirtsand.
I have refreshed my inquiry over at the OpenUru forum as you are aware I tend not to be concerned where an answer comes from rather that I get an answer that I understand.
In the coming weeks I will also be building a new dirtsand shard in new hardware and that will inform me if there are any updates required to the Noob proof instructions for dirtsand.
Re: Moss build questions
I've never attempted a MOSS build, despite having a nice server that could run a shard, for the same reason as you are facing. The process and the instructions are daunting. Your spelunking into Cavern construction is appreciated. I'm hoping you will be kind enough to create a companion tutorial along the way in your travels with its own revised instructions, rather than heavily modifying the original documentation. That would make it easier for people like me who have the necessary toys but no will or time to translate the arcanery into real keystrokes and clicks to make it work. I think it would be valuable to have both available with Guru/Power User and Idiot's Guide versions.
JW
JW
Perfect speed is being there.
Re: Moss build questions
A small bit of help for you:
I have updated the abandoned http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title ... structions page for Ubuntu Server 18.04.1.
The doc/setup instructions in the source are accurate, and following them will result in a working server. Those instructions do assume a base level of knowledge, since it is not practical to have detailed instructions for every OS and distribution flavor.
Thanks.
Edit:
An extra step that you will need to take is to hex edit the official UruLauncher.exe and UruExplorer.exe files and replace the Cyan keys in the executable with the ones you generated via make_cyan_dh, since it is no longer possible for most users to build the MOULa Uru Client (due to Visual Studio 2003 being unavailable).
Question for the OpenUru team: In order to assist those attempting to set up a MOSS server, would it be possible to update the .zip files for the binaries and source at http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title ... Auth_Files with the current sources?
I have updated the abandoned http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title ... structions page for Ubuntu Server 18.04.1.
The doc/setup instructions in the source are accurate, and following them will result in a working server. Those instructions do assume a base level of knowledge, since it is not practical to have detailed instructions for every OS and distribution flavor.
Thanks.
Edit:
An extra step that you will need to take is to hex edit the official UruLauncher.exe and UruExplorer.exe files and replace the Cyan keys in the executable with the ones you generated via make_cyan_dh, since it is no longer possible for most users to build the MOULa Uru Client (due to Visual Studio 2003 being unavailable).
Question for the OpenUru team: In order to assist those attempting to set up a MOSS server, would it be possible to update the .zip files for the binaries and source at http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title ... Auth_Files with the current sources?
Last edited by cjkelly1 on Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Moss build questions
Ok I have gotten around to working through
http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title ... structions
Just to be clear this is being tested on an Ubuntu 32bit Server by default this has to be distro 16.04 as this is the newest available for 32bit this is a primary experiment as this is what is available at my work location as I iron issues of my understanding.
I did notice the instructions recommend that the "restricted" and "universe" repositories be added to the sources list with no detail on how to do this I did find the following page useful
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repos ... ommandLine
Another page did tell me that these should only be needed if I am not online at install time and the plan for now is to proceed till I hit something that stops me.
The first two sudo apt-get install lines have no issues
It should be noted that previously I was hitting a failure to install mercurial so it looks like this is one thing that is no longer an issue.
Here bigineth the questions.
At the end of the mercurial install I get the following message.
In the instructions we now get the following.
configure
By default in Ubuntu, MOSS will be installed under /usr/local. If you prefer another location (such as the home directory of the user who will run MOSS), be sure to specify with the --prefix option. I also recommended to use the --enable-fast-download option, as the zero seconds bug does not exist in MOSS.
Compile
MOSS: MOSS should compile without any problems. If you are installing to a root-owned directory, make sure to use sudo make install, unless you rejoice in seeing a permission error message.
PostgreSQL module: assuming you run sudo make install, the PostgreSQL module should automatically be copied over to your PostgreSQL directory. Make sure to restart PostgreSQL with the following command:
NOTE: These are not instructions these are bits of detail signifying options I would ask what is the command to which I am supposed to be adding the following?
The documentation would appear to imply that this is going to happen magically as a result of the sudo apt-get install mercurial command which is clearly not the case.
I hope you realise this is an attempt to make building a MOSS shard from the instructions a possibility as it stands we are hitting an instruction desert very early on.
I know that we should have made a snapshot from the mercurial repository in much the same way we took a snapshot from the github for the dirtsand shard so I am presuming we are missing some steps in this process.
These may well be in some other location if so then fine but I/We need to be told where.
Building a MOSS shard should not require some psychic ability. We either need a link or a copy in the instructions.
As I told the people I interrogated during the dirtsand instruction build process feel free to call me whatever names you want I have a notoriously thick skin and can take it.
The net result should eventually be a Noob proof instruction set
http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title ... structions
Just to be clear this is being tested on an Ubuntu 32bit Server by default this has to be distro 16.04 as this is the newest available for 32bit this is a primary experiment as this is what is available at my work location as I iron issues of my understanding.
I did notice the instructions recommend that the "restricted" and "universe" repositories be added to the sources list with no detail on how to do this I did find the following page useful
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repos ... ommandLine
Another page did tell me that these should only be needed if I am not online at install time and the plan for now is to proceed till I hit something that stops me.
The first two sudo apt-get install lines have no issues
It should be noted that previously I was hitting a failure to install mercurial so it looks like this is one thing that is no longer an issue.
Here bigineth the questions.
At the end of the mercurial install I get the following message.
- Creating config file /etc/mercurial/hgrc.d/hgext.rc with new version
In the instructions we now get the following.
configure
By default in Ubuntu, MOSS will be installed under /usr/local. If you prefer another location (such as the home directory of the user who will run MOSS), be sure to specify with the --prefix option. I also recommended to use the --enable-fast-download option, as the zero seconds bug does not exist in MOSS.
Compile
MOSS: MOSS should compile without any problems. If you are installing to a root-owned directory, make sure to use sudo make install, unless you rejoice in seeing a permission error message.
PostgreSQL module: assuming you run sudo make install, the PostgreSQL module should automatically be copied over to your PostgreSQL directory. Make sure to restart PostgreSQL with the following command:
NOTE: These are not instructions these are bits of detail signifying options I would ask what is the command to which I am supposed to be adding the following?
- firstly the "--prefix option"?
secondly the "--enable-fast-download option"?
What "zero seconds bug"?
The documentation would appear to imply that this is going to happen magically as a result of the sudo apt-get install mercurial command which is clearly not the case.
I hope you realise this is an attempt to make building a MOSS shard from the instructions a possibility as it stands we are hitting an instruction desert very early on.
I know that we should have made a snapshot from the mercurial repository in much the same way we took a snapshot from the github for the dirtsand shard so I am presuming we are missing some steps in this process.
These may well be in some other location if so then fine but I/We need to be told where.
Building a MOSS shard should not require some psychic ability. We either need a link or a copy in the instructions.
As I told the people I interrogated during the dirtsand instruction build process feel free to call me whatever names you want I have a notoriously thick skin and can take it.
The net result should eventually be a Noob proof instruction set
Re: Moss build questions
At the top of the Ubuntu section on the distribution specific page, the page author (not me) put:
Please note however that this does not provide full instructions for installation, as MOSS-Setup does a more-than-decent job of it already.
I only updated the apt-get stuff for the current release of Ubuntu (since I run Debian on my server) and added a configure flag. I intentionally did not put in instructions on how to add repositories to Ubuntu, as I believe that is outside the scope of that page. All of the other things on that page I did not write, and so cannot answer for.
If you browse the wiki, you will find that all available additional documentation on the wiki can be reached from the http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title=MOSS page, and there is also documentation in the source tree, under the "doc" directory.
Please be aware that the wiki documentation may not be accurate.
Since there are no longer any MOSS maintainers and MOSS is not being actively developed, that is unlikely to change.
On a side note ----- Zero seconds bug explained ---- http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title ... #configure
Please note however that this does not provide full instructions for installation, as MOSS-Setup does a more-than-decent job of it already.
I only updated the apt-get stuff for the current release of Ubuntu (since I run Debian on my server) and added a configure flag. I intentionally did not put in instructions on how to add repositories to Ubuntu, as I believe that is outside the scope of that page. All of the other things on that page I did not write, and so cannot answer for.
If you browse the wiki, you will find that all available additional documentation on the wiki can be reached from the http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title=MOSS page, and there is also documentation in the source tree, under the "doc" directory.
Please be aware that the wiki documentation may not be accurate.
Since there are no longer any MOSS maintainers and MOSS is not being actively developed, that is unlikely to change.
On a side note ----- Zero seconds bug explained ---- http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title ... #configure
Re: Moss build questions
Sorry cj
NOTE: This is by way of explanation and the request is aimed not only to you but to anyone who can answer the question posed at the end of this post.
It is my intention to work towards an updated set of instructions for a MOSS shard in the same way I updated the ones for a dirtsand shard and to that end I have to try and pick the brains of anyone I can.
Where possible I try to make those new instructions as detailed as possible so that if someone at a later date possibly even me can decode what was intended if the process stops working.
The updated apt-get is a boon and that gets me to the next stage. I am not trying to be critical more like I am trying to find a solution to the next blocking stage in the process.
This worked for the dirtsand model I have to hope that it will work for the MOSS model.
As I often tell people I try to write idiot guides where I am the idiot. If I write so that I understand the result should contain concise instructions and explanations open to correction.
The argument that "MOSS-Setup does a more decent job of it" is hollow because when I tried to follow that it fell at the first hurdle as neither has any detail on getting what you need to compile.
(Case in point you say "MOSS-Setup" I have to assume is "MOSS/Setup" as found in the OpenUru.org wiki)
Making stuff Noob proof is a detailed operation please understand that out of necessity my approach has to be pedantic and critical to find the right answers.
For example if there is somewhere instructions labelled "MOSS-Setup" that I have missed let me know because I will not be the only idiot to have missed this.
By proceeding step wise through the process of actually building a MOSS shard on an Ubuntu Server documenting as I go, hopefully I will get to a stage where we can update the instructions to be found under Linux - Ubuntu in http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title ... structions to a level where idiots of my ilk can replicate the process and understand each step along the way.
I want to make this clear I am the Idiot here and as such I am totally qualified to ask the stupid questions. I am am in no way concerned what anyone thinks of me I am actually proud of that idiot status.
To progress I have managed to get the apt-get commands to pass muster and in order to proceed to the Configure and Compile stages I figure I need to somehow use mercurial to grab something to Configure and Compile.
In the dirtsand model we used github to grab an image of the base file structure.
QUESTION: So for MOSS is this done with mercurial and if so what is the required command?
I do understand I may have totally grabbed the wrong end of the stick here. Feel free to correct my assumptions.
Also I appreciate this may be answered somewhere else.
[edit]
Flapping around in the dark I found an old thread I posted about a broken mercurial link viewtopic.php?f=5&t=994
In this thread Christian Walther suggested grabbing the source from bitbucket which actually sounds fair following the following link ended up at a zip file
https://bitbucket.org/OpenUru_org/moss/downloads/
Now while I can download this which I will and shall look at using Windows it may be good and there probably is a way to unpack this to a specific directory with a command line. I did notice we do grab unzip in the apt-get.
Needless to say I am going to unpack that zip and see what it contains just to see if it switches on any lights.
[/edit]
[edit2]
Yep it does look like that bitbucket route is where I need to go, that would make the "sudo apt-get install mercurial" obsolete.
If not before I will probably be able to ask Christian about this on Sunday I don't know if this zip file is still up to date but there is probably only one way to find out.
I suppose I could use Filezilla or CoreFTP to migrate the unpacked zip to some directory on my proposed server but if I want to make this noob proof using a command line to grab and unpack would remove some steps and as we did with the dirtsand unpack the data and structure to a known location with the required access rights.
I did see somewhere there was a request about getting binaries up to date but I am buggered if I can find where it was I hope this was not this bitbucket stuff that would mean what I intended to grab was out of date. Having said that out of date does not actually imply that it won't work just that it may need some tweeking.
[/edit2]
NOTE: This is by way of explanation and the request is aimed not only to you but to anyone who can answer the question posed at the end of this post.
It is my intention to work towards an updated set of instructions for a MOSS shard in the same way I updated the ones for a dirtsand shard and to that end I have to try and pick the brains of anyone I can.
Where possible I try to make those new instructions as detailed as possible so that if someone at a later date possibly even me can decode what was intended if the process stops working.
The updated apt-get is a boon and that gets me to the next stage. I am not trying to be critical more like I am trying to find a solution to the next blocking stage in the process.
This worked for the dirtsand model I have to hope that it will work for the MOSS model.
As I often tell people I try to write idiot guides where I am the idiot. If I write so that I understand the result should contain concise instructions and explanations open to correction.
The argument that "MOSS-Setup does a more decent job of it" is hollow because when I tried to follow that it fell at the first hurdle as neither has any detail on getting what you need to compile.
(Case in point you say "MOSS-Setup" I have to assume is "MOSS/Setup" as found in the OpenUru.org wiki)
Making stuff Noob proof is a detailed operation please understand that out of necessity my approach has to be pedantic and critical to find the right answers.
For example if there is somewhere instructions labelled "MOSS-Setup" that I have missed let me know because I will not be the only idiot to have missed this.
By proceeding step wise through the process of actually building a MOSS shard on an Ubuntu Server documenting as I go, hopefully I will get to a stage where we can update the instructions to be found under Linux - Ubuntu in http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title ... structions to a level where idiots of my ilk can replicate the process and understand each step along the way.
I want to make this clear I am the Idiot here and as such I am totally qualified to ask the stupid questions. I am am in no way concerned what anyone thinks of me I am actually proud of that idiot status.
To progress I have managed to get the apt-get commands to pass muster and in order to proceed to the Configure and Compile stages I figure I need to somehow use mercurial to grab something to Configure and Compile.
In the dirtsand model we used github to grab an image of the base file structure.
QUESTION: So for MOSS is this done with mercurial and if so what is the required command?
I do understand I may have totally grabbed the wrong end of the stick here. Feel free to correct my assumptions.
Also I appreciate this may be answered somewhere else.
[edit]
Flapping around in the dark I found an old thread I posted about a broken mercurial link viewtopic.php?f=5&t=994
In this thread Christian Walther suggested grabbing the source from bitbucket which actually sounds fair following the following link ended up at a zip file
https://bitbucket.org/OpenUru_org/moss/downloads/
Now while I can download this which I will and shall look at using Windows it may be good and there probably is a way to unpack this to a specific directory with a command line. I did notice we do grab unzip in the apt-get.
Needless to say I am going to unpack that zip and see what it contains just to see if it switches on any lights.
[/edit]
[edit2]
Yep it does look like that bitbucket route is where I need to go, that would make the "sudo apt-get install mercurial" obsolete.
If not before I will probably be able to ask Christian about this on Sunday I don't know if this zip file is still up to date but there is probably only one way to find out.
I suppose I could use Filezilla or CoreFTP to migrate the unpacked zip to some directory on my proposed server but if I want to make this noob proof using a command line to grab and unpack would remove some steps and as we did with the dirtsand unpack the data and structure to a known location with the required access rights.
I did see somewhere there was a request about getting binaries up to date but I am buggered if I can find where it was I hope this was not this bitbucket stuff that would mean what I intended to grab was out of date. Having said that out of date does not actually imply that it won't work just that it may need some tweeking.
[/edit2]