What needs to be done with the Plugin?

[Lehm]

I'm confused. If the plugin exports it to the plasma engine format. What does it matter which version of max we use?

[JWPlatt]

All the 3ds Max content is exported en masse on Cyan's build server into a release. i.e., it does the export.

[Lehm]

Wow this is a strange production pipeline. So did we not get the build server code?

[rarified]

Wow this is a strange production pipeline. So did we not get the build server?

We didn't get all of the materials Cyan uses for building MOULa. There still are parts that have not been open sourced (their server among them). But I would imagine that since MOULa is only one of the systems that Cyan maintains they have some customized build processes and environments that we don't need and would just make it harder for people to build their own copies.

That said, we do have a build server at the foundry, but it will be using something very similar to the build process you are experiencing yourself. The Foundry does not however have a copy of the Max SDK to build the plugin against (at this time). So we need the help of people who have the appropriate SDKs and can work out the build process.

_R

[Lehm]

Wow this is a strange production pipeline. So did we not get the build server?

We didn't get all of the materials Cyan uses for building MOULa. There still are parts that have not been open sourced (their server among them). But I would imagine that since MOULa is only one of the systems that Cyan maintains they have some customized build processes and environments that we don't need and would just make it harder for people to build their own copies.

That said, we do have a build server at the foundry, but it will be using something very similar to the build process you are experiencing yourself. The Foundry does not however have a copy of the Max SDK to build the plugin against (at this time). So we need the help of people who have the appropriate SDKs and can work out the build process.

_R

Oh we weren't talking about compiling the plugin (at least I wasn't), but the converting of max content into plasma compatible content. What I'm trying to establish is that part of what we got or has Cyan not released that yet? Its kind of a problem if they haven't.

[JWPlatt]

We need the SDK to build the plugin. You need the plugin to create the content. Cyan needs the 3ds Max content you create to put it on MOULa. Their build system will export it into the release. Their build system is not open source, but we don't need it. We do have what we need except the 3rd party proprietary libraries Cyan had to remove. The libraries can be replaced or restored to the plugin in some way, as was done with the client. Everyone needs to be compatible to get content onto MOULa, and that can only be through 3ds Max version 7 unless and until Cyan upgrades. At that point, the software would be newer and much more available, but everyone will still have to be compatible or provide conversions.

We have everything essential to test and get content onto MOULa, except the 3ds Max 7 SDK. It's really about the SDK. Even then, the version 7 plugin binary is available on our wiki for those who have 3ds Max 7. But moving forward into further development of the plugin - making improvements, adding features, fixing bugs, and provindg those new builds - is what really requires the SDK.

[Lehm]

So Cyan didn't give us a way to export ages from max. Well that's a bit of a setback. In order for Max to be usable then, one will need to be written. Hopefully that won't be too tricky as some have figured out how to export content from Blender. Authors will need a way to export their ages for testing that doesn't involve sending it to Cyan. That workflow will simply not work. Also, being an open source project it should be completely independent from Cyan. The OS project and the official MOULa servers should be separate. Otherwise we'll be waiting on their permission for everything and it will just bog everything down. We should have to ability to do whatever we want with it, and if Cyan likes something and wants to include it on the official servers then cool. We need to make the best workflow that works for us. Sending content to Cyan for conversion isn't it.

[JWPlatt]

I believe the plugin does export. To the prp files. So that's all there. It's just that Cyan's build system wants the 3ds Max files, not the exports, because their build system does the export too. If you just dropped your export into the build system, it would not make it through to release. This is beyond my experience, but that's my understanding. On other shards, they can arrange it any way they want independent from Cyan, as you wish.

Something to remember is that Cyan's build system was developed for an entirely different beast - Uru Live and it's pipeline. And it supports other projects, like MQO and more. That's not something easy to change. But we do have all the tools we need to develop and run independent shards with our own content. I hope that clears up your concerns.

[Lehm]

So basically to sum up if we want stuff compatible with MOULa at least for right now it will have to be done in ver7, which we already have a plugin for. Otherwise we can use whatever we want for our OS servers. I think that should be where our focus is. If Cyan ends up liking some of our content let them find a way to make it compatible. It would be much easier for Cyan to change their build server to accept prps then for us to develop our pipeline for a version of software you can't even get anymore.

[Mac_Fife]

If Cyan ends up liking some of our content let them find a way to make it compatible. It would be much easier for Cyan to change their build server to accept prps then for us to develop our pipeline for a version of software you can't even get anymore.

You might think so, but we all know Cyan are resource limited so changing anything is likely to be harder than any of us on the outside would imagine. If Cyan are offered Age_A, a moderately good age that is built using Max 7 and fits their build pipeline, and Age_B, an excellent age that requires modifying the pipeline to accept it, then I suspect that Age_A would win over over Age_B, simply on the basis of requiring less work. Cyan are keen to get additional content available to fans on MOULa, but they won't be so keen on spending time on non-revenue generating work.

I'm guessing here of course. But, as little snippets of information emerge from various sources, I'm getting a sense of how things work in Spokane, and that there are quite valid reasons for most things being done the way they're done. That's not to suggest that change is impossible, just that it's likely to be hard.