Phase 0.5 Server net to form a Shard (absolute basics)

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Grogyan
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Phase 0.5 Server net to form a Shard (absolute basics)

Post by Grogyan » Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:24 am

Grogyan wrote: Server Net shopping is in order, as well as
Someway of paying for the privilege of using them, perhaps donations through PayPal?
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=26&start=10
and
http://www.guildofmaintainers.org/Forum ... 223#p10223

As we start to branch out to determine what is needed, I brought these two points up, that I believe are the most crucial before before discussing anything else, to get an idea of what we will all be signing up for, and for some of use, will be signing up for 2 shards or server nets. I don't know the actual term as "data centre" means to me something like massive servers with masses amount of data in a massive building.

Just to get quotes for server nets, how we could pay for the privilege (payPal?)

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Re: Phase 0.5 Server net to form a Shard (absolute basics)

Post by Chacal » Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:53 am

Aren't we already discussing that on another thread?

Grogyan
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Re: Phase 0.5 Server net to form a Shard (absolute basics)

Post by Grogyan » Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:17 am

Yes and no, its getting convoluted in another thread about managing the code once we have it, and get used to it

This thread focuses on the absolute basic, get the data as is, and slapping it on a server ready to drive and go crazy with, after that, sorting out who does who and who can do what. Then focus efforts on fixing critical bugs, and features that we will need

I have no experience in the matter, so we need to know some things

How big,
How wide we can afford to make it (number of servers in the net)
Bandwidth up and down
etc

I expect that there will be minimal amount of work to actually get a game server up with the released code, just need to sort out IP address, ports to go through, you know the basics for every online game, and i'm sure that Cyan has commented that section to know for themselves

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Re: Phase 0.5 Server net to form a Shard (absolute basics)

Post by Mac_Fife » Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:22 pm

I guess we've got threads on Database and Servers, but nothing that specifically focusses on the composition of a "game server" as an overall entity, so I see this as a valid topic.
Grogyan wrote:This thread focuses on the absolute basic, get the data as is, and slapping it on a server ready to drive and go crazy with, ...
I really don't think it'll be as simple as that - I hope it is, but part of the reason for creating this forum was a growing concern amongst some people who know about handing over big IT projects, is that it's never straightforward. Even Cyan tripped up when they moved servers last December, so their installation notes may not be that helpful :( .

I know it'll be a disappointment to a lot of folk, but I think it'll be weeks, if not months, before there's a "usable" shard/net/cluster (i.e. usable by anything more than a few players at a time), and it almost certainly will mean leasing dedicated servers. Elsewhere, walts has priced a typical dedicated server at $120/month, although some people are in the position of having access to (limited) similar facilities effectively free. And one server won't do it, I'm guessing three is an absolute minimum.

Also, keep in mind that Chogon said "Things will be released in stages", which implies that we won't be getting everything we need at the first drop :? .

Edit: Corrected Chogon quote and added link to original post.
Last edited by Mac_Fife on Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added link to Chogon post
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Re: Phase 0.5 Server net to form a Shard (absolute basics)

Post by rarified » Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:11 pm

Something I havn't seen considered for servers...

What about making use of one of the Cloud providers? Amazon, Google, Sun all have large farms of servers they "rent" at what seems to me reasonable rates. As long as we can package the server code and data up according to their specifications it could work.

Anyone have experience using one of these services?
One of the OpenUru toolsmiths... a bookbinder.

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Re: Phase 0.5 Server net to form a Shard (absolute basics)

Post by Chacal » Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:24 pm

Mac_Fife wrote:Elsewhere, walts has priced a typical dedicated server at $120/month
There was the word "celeron" in the description of that server, so I'm afraid I stopped reading. But maybe for a very basic data server for a few players.

@rarified: I haven't heard of cloud computing applied to on-line gaming. With all the queuing going on, can it offer a consistent QoS?

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Re: Phase 0.5 Server net to form a Shard (absolute basics)

Post by Mac_Fife » Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:41 pm

Just for comparison sake, I checked today with the hosting service I use (a UK datacentre), for their pricing on fully dedicated servers (i.e. not "virtual" servers). They offered quite a few options for Windows Server 2003 platforms, so I've just picked one example from the lower end of the scale to show here:

Quad core Xeon 2.13GHz
2GB DDR
2 x 160GB HDD (SATA, Hardware RAID)
MS SQL Server 2000 MSDE
ASP.Net
PHP, Perl, MySQL, MSXML, etc.
Tier 1 network connectivity @ 50Gb/s
No monthly traffic limit
£1200 (~US$1780) per year with Windows Server 2003 Web Edition or £1380 (~US$2040) per year with Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition.

Above that you can opt for faster processors, faster disks (SAS), more RAM, etc., and end up at £3000 (~US$4440) per year!
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Grogyan
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Re: Phase 0.5 Server net to form a Shard (absolute basics)

Post by Grogyan » Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:51 pm

See thats the stuff we need to know.

We know the code will be released in stages, and everyone is expecting that it will be a smooth transition.
Choosing preliminary server nets that may prove inadequate or more than we can afford will be potion for failure, again, I don't want that to happen

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Re: Phase 0.5 Server net to form a Shard (absolute basics)

Post by Chacal » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:07 pm

Now you're talking. That's a reasonable basic server. I like the "no monthly traffic limit" part.
It would be interesting to spread the shard across the world.

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Re: Phase 0.5 Server net to form a Shard (absolute basics)

Post by Mac_Fife » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:23 pm

Chacal wrote:It would be interesting to spread the shard across the world.
Yeah, I'm far from being expert on these matters, but it was a thought I had during the "0 seconds remaining" issue that distributed "access points" may have helped some of those folks plagued by high latency connections to the MO:UL servers (Oz and NZ, for example). But by distributing the servers, do we run the risk of database concurrency issues?

Edit: Merry Christmas, everyone :D !
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