Cleaning Up Instancing

[walts]

OK now I have a major headache from trying to absorb all of this!

Thanks, Alahmnat for clarifying much of the confusion - and for a great analysis of the descent. I really can't add much except to say that it was always a minor source of confusion to me as to why everyone had identical but separate neighborhoods. Apart from the obvious OOC reasons, of course. I know it would be a lot more work, but it would also make more sense if the various neighborhoods were visually different by more than the existing in-game customization. They could still link to instanced, identical Garden ages, or probably any other "standard" age that the average D'ni could pick up at their local Age Store.

Walt

[Erik]

I hope Alahmnat's proposal will be realised. Then instances will finally make sense again. I found myself nodding at everything you wrote in this topic; it would be perfect as you described it, I don't have anything to add.

It's quite exciting that we may be able to "fix" (at Cyan they would have said: "it's not a bug, it's a feature!") things like this.

[Chacal]

Even though I understand the mechanics of linking, reading the description makes my head asplode.
This is still way too complicated and unnecessary.

What about:
- everyone using the same book ends up in the same Age
- all books in public instances link to public instances
- all books in private instances link to private instances
- Aegura and Bevin are always public

That would make sense, at last.

Discussion:

Getting a private book:
- you get books in your Relto the same way you get Yeesha pages: you find a CLOSED book, you click on it, you see it up close. You click on the book, there's a sound and it goes away. This means you now have the book in your Relto shelf. This is intuitive and it works like "add to inventory" in all role games.

Using a book:
- if the book is open instead of closed, it works as usual. Anyone clicking on it links to the same instance. Any other behavior is illogical (such as the current one).

Sharing a private book:
- There is no stamp in regular books. You send invites to your Relto or you share your Relto book.

Neighborhoods:
No change. They are "public" in the sense that anyone linking to, say, "Amber Horizon Bevin" ends up in the same instance, which makes sense.

Aegura:
It is public. When you get to the maximum capacity, it is full. That's logical, all on-line games work that way.

Bahro stones:
- toss them in the lake and replace them with pages that are added to your existing books (same was as for Yeesha pages).

Nexus:
- always links to public instances, except for "private links" which has invites. There would be "City links", "Neighborhoods", "Private links" and "Public links" with all Ages including user-created Ages.

This model gets rid of Yeesha Magic and Bahro stones. We now use books, as we should.

This is a general outline showing how the system could be made more intuitive. I'm sure there would be dozens of details to be discussed.

[Marten]

Here are some details to discuss, as you predicted.

Getting a private book:
- you get books in your Relto the same way you get Yeesha pages: you find a CLOSED book, you click on it, you see it up close. You click on the book, there's a sound and it goes away. This means you now have the book in your Relto shelf. This is intuitive and it works like "add to inventory" in all role games.

Problem: Not all books go to the Relto shelf. Are you proposing that players be able to collect private instances of every book they encounter? Or is the distinguishing indicator between books you can collect and those you cannot based on whether the book is initially open or closed? That doesn't make any (logical) sense to me.

Nexus:
- always links to public instances, except for "private links" which has invites. There would be "City links", "Neighborhoods", "Private links" and "Public links" with all Ages including user-created Ages.

This model gets rid of Yeesha Magic and Bahro stones. We now use books, as we should.

Except that books appearing Relto when you use them is Yeesha Magic, and private links in Nexus is also Yeesha Magic.

I really, really want to see the private links in Nexus go the way of the dodo bird. And the KI too. Private instancing is Yeesha Magic, there is no escaping it. Let's put it where it belongs.

[Chacal]

Personally I agree about that, but I'm thinking of the new players who would want to do the quest themselves, maybe with a little help from friends. Helping people solve Kadish was one of the best things in MOUL. We do need to have something to do in the game, otherwise it gets old fast.

Problem: Not all books go to the Relto shelf. Are you proposing that players be able to collect private instances of every book they encounter? Or is the distinguishing indicator between books you can collect and those you cannot based on whether the book is initially open or closed? That doesn't make any (logical) sense to me.

Collectable books wouldn't open. They would just be clickable objects and wouldn't link anywhere. The idea here is to get a copy of the linking book and place it in your Relto shelf, as you would do with a physical book. I don't know, I'm sure there's a better way to do that but that's the general idea.

[Erik]

Physically sharing the Book instead of sending invites would still be possible.

[75th Trombone]

I think clicking a closed book to add it to your Relto shelf is a terrific idea. It's intuitive, it makes sense, it's brilliant. Books that you don't "collect" in this way can be on pedestals where they're actually restrained from being taken, similar to how the books scattered around Ae'gura on KI pedestals were.

[realXCV]

Will the notebooks (which are closed too) be added to the Relto ?

For thoses with a headache try to understand MOUL instancing like this:

In MOUL, it was (generally speaking):
- Yeesha symbol -> Add to relto and link to private instance
- No Yeesha symbol -> link to hood instanced
- In the Nexus -> Link to public

Question for everyone: Are we trying to make instancing...
- easier to explain but harder to use and less logical
- easier to use but harder to explain and less logical
- more logical but harder to use or explain
- none of the above, we try to reinvent the wheel.

[Marten]

We want it easy to explain, easy to use, and logical.

Taking instancing out of the KI and Nexus wouldn't' mean we have to make invitations difficult. A system can be added to the Relto book or to the books on the Relto bookshelf that would permit the user to manage invitations. (This is not my idea, belford described something similar here (thanks to 75th Trombone for helping me find the link!) - http://eblong.com/zarf/uru/rj/essay-bet ... ncing.html .) While I think belford's description needs some cleanup to make it simpler, It's still a better solution than the current system by far... consider that presently, you can send invitations to players through the KI, but if you want to revoke an invitation, removing it from your KI doesn't remove the invite... you have to do that at the Nexus. It's a mess.

[realXCV]

Having to go to the Relto to use a newly discovered age is not what I call "easier to use".

In the belford's plan, players can do Yeesha Magic.