Minkata Shard Update Thursday December 12, 2013

[janaba]

I finally payed a visit to my Relto closet, I had go and delete my TOS file to see if I missed sth as I was looking for that LGBT shirt, Annabelle mentioned, but I didn't miss sth, so I suppose she's talking of that colored 'Pride' shirt ...

Ok, as everybody else has mentioned, the new styles are only available for that short sleeve shirt ... they all seem to have the proper proportions except for the 'Obduction' design, it looks a bit egg-shaped, but it's ok, it is shiny and beautiful nonetheless, ah, and there is that Subterranean Restorations logo, not a real logo, just SR, for the leather jacket ...

Yeah, and of course, I've seen that infamous 'Belly Shirt' lol ... For me it doesn't appear very sexy lol, it looks more lovely and sweet, but maybe because of my slender stature, my belly is a bit flat hihi ... In general, I'd say, hmmm, it might be that the belly shirt isn't very appropriate as for the purpose of exploration and investigation within this special environment, means in the cavern underground with debris and boulders everywhere etc, and besides Minkata it is not very warm down there ... Sturdy shoes, warm hoodies and resilient clothing in general would be perfect for such explorations, but I in no way want to tell anyone how to dress and feel comfortable ...

As for the 'beret', I'd agree with Annabelle, it really looks more like a head relief bag lol, yeah, the texture isn't very crisp and the hair has many holes in it when turning your head ... Most short hair styles look more hardened with sugary lotion or so and a bit tattered or frayed, but ok that's a matter of taste of course ...

Ok, Acorn and all asking themselves, where does censorship start, it starts where we start to judge and censor and impose, it stops when we stop it and let everybody his/her own way ...

[JWPlatt]

Before any decisions are taken on the top, we should hear the case for the defence.

To be very clear in the hopes of nipping this in the bud, there's no Community Board of Judgement. Let's not go there because that leads down a dark path. No one wants that job and no artist wants their creativity repressed under duress. The "decision" lies solely with each individual shard owner about what content they support. You (I mean the collective you - not speaking personally) can make your "case" to Cyan in regards to what they will support on their MOULa shard, and I strongly recommend doing it privately, but I would not support any sense of putting Fan Content or its artists on trial.

[janaba]

Now JWPlatt posted already and I agree of course ...

I just wanted to add to my lenghty post above, which I forgot before ... Many thanks to you all, esp. Chloe and rarified (and those who created all those new styles without considering and wanting to make everybody happy lol, but we are testers and asked how this all appeals and fits), for putting this all together and implementing it all on the shard for probable later implementation in MOULa and thus enhancing it with fan content ...

[GPNMilano]

As I said, I'm not going to dress my avvies up in the cropped top - but nor will I dress them in the short shorts - do people think the shorts are appropriate? Should they be removed? Where does the censorship start and where does it stop?

Before any decisions are taken on the top, we should hear the case for the defence. Maybe Chloe could contact that person and encourage them to contribute to the discussion.

I'd be more than happy to bring that artist into the discussion.

::looks around then raises her hand:::

Yep. It was mine.

I get where the negative reactions are coming from. As others have pointed out, it does seem inappropriate for cavern exploration. It's not meant to be worn in the cavern however. It's more of an Anhonay, Gira, Minkata, Tsogal, E'rcana type of thing. You know those warm, inviting ages that when you're avatar is running around with a jacket, or swimming with jeans and a T-shirt, looks kind of silly? The idea was to expand the closet over time with items that would be appropriate for current and any new ages that might pop up. I had considered doing a bathing suit for swimming but, I decided since we already had shorts to do a sporty shirt that could be worn while treking through hot ages as well as for swimming. Believe it or not, there is a method to my madness.

As far as the family friendly environment. I point you to MQ Online. A similar wardrobe item was provided there that exposed the midriff. (I believe it was a Doublet, but i can't recall the name of it off the top of my head) I felt that a similar item for females would be okay in MOULa. I chose to go with a blank version so that later down the road the item could be expanded much like the T-Shirt and Long Sleeve t-shirts to include graphics and logos etc.

[Tai'lahr]

I'm truly hesitant to go down this road because I want to encourage creativity, not discourage it, but I'm truly uncomfortable with the idea of this particular piece being added to MOULa. It probably will and I'll get used to it, but I'm going to express my concerns for now.

As far as the family friendly environment. I point you to MQ Online. A similar wardrobe item was provided there that exposed the midriff.

Yes, I recall seeing a piece of clothing in the MQO wardrobe that made me think, "Whoa - risque!" I didn't really think it was appropriate there, either. And, I don't think that's a good argument for including it in MOULa since it was a hired job and not an original creation of Cyan's.

I had considered doing a bathing suit for swimming

This is my real concern - that it's a slippery slope to more revealing clothing. As more and more fan-created items are added to MOULa over time, it will become more routine and more likely that something will slip by Cyan's PG radar. Where is the line going to be drawn? Or will there simply be no limits?

The idea was to expand the closet over time with items that would be appropriate for current and any new ages that might pop up.

And, I do hope you'll continue to do that. Also, some of the items already in the wardrobe could be improved upon - such as the shorts which can be colored. They look like jeans without color, but no amount of coloring will make them look like jeans or like nice shorts, either. It would be nice to have a pair of nice plain shorts which can be colored and a separate pair of cutoff jean shorts.

[Hoikas]

I for one applaud GPNMilano's additions and cannot wait to see them on the Gehn Shard. Compared to disgusting nature of television, what we are presented with here is perfectly acceptable for a family friendly game.

[Mac_Fife]

As JW Platt commented earlier, it's not OpenUru's place to be arbiter of what is or isn't acceptable for MOULa (that said, there's undoubtedly a hard to define boundary beyond which we'd have to say "No, that can't go on Minkata"). Certainly, where you're discussing any clothing item that you might reasonably see in any public place (except perhaps in some quite repressive states) it's difficult to say that it's wrong to include it, although I do see where the concerns come from.

As far as MOULa is concerned, Cyan will decide what they are prepared to "publish" and their measures may well more conservative. Or perhaps not. Similarly, it'll be up to each shard to decide what they will or will not use, though I suspect most will probably opt to offer the greatest variety that they can.

It is fair that people have the opportunity to say publically what they don't like and why or what worries them, as that can help inform the shard operators (Cyan included) as to whether something might prove problematic. But there's a bit of a chicken 'n' egg situation in that you can't really have that debate until the artist has done most of the work to create the item and there's something to see. In other words, it probably needs to be on a public shard somewhere at sometime so the critique can occur.

[GPNMilano]

I was going to write another long post to try and persuade people to my side of this issue. But the fact is I can't do that. There's an old adage people say about opinions, and it's one I try and live by. Thus I don't try and change peoples opinions. I do encourage people to think positively and keep their opinion open to change. If other shard owners want to include this and any designs I come up with, I know they will. If Cyan (or anyone else) decides not to, I would simply ask "Okay, what would you like me to change." Because of the nature of our open-souce existence, I know anything that doesn't make it to Cyan's shard will have a home somewhere else. Sure, as an artist it will bum me out that the larger community couldn't partake in my creations because a few were uncomfortable with it, but that's life. We must deal with it how we can and move on. My only fear in this is that if we allow our opinions on an artist's work, to be able to dictate what content is included simply on whether or not they as a person like it or not, will ultimately end in the only conclusion that's possible - very little content, and very little reason to keep returning. My biggest fear in all this is that, ultimately we're going to end up with very little content making it's way to the larger community that is out there, and it will negatively impact any future MOULa has.

[Tai'lahr]

My biggest fear in all this is that, ultimately we're going to end up with very little content making it's way to the larger community that is out there, and it will negatively impact any future MOULa has.

Awwww, geez. Seriously? Fear? Just because three people expressed an opinion? Pull-eeze!

it will bum me out that the larger community couldn't partake in my creations because a few were uncomfortable with it

You know that's not going to happen. Cyan's going to make their own decision no matter what anyone thinks, much less a few.

Look, it's a perfectly fine piece of clothing and I do hope most of the other shards will welcome it. I would even wear something like this in Second Life. I guess I just wish Cyan had higher standards for what's considered a "wholesome family-friendly game," but I suppose that's old-fashioned thinking in this day and age.

[GPNMilano]

My biggest fear in all this is that, ultimately we're going to end up with very little content making it's way to the larger community that is out there, and it will negatively impact any future MOULa has.

Awwww, geez. Seriously? Fear? Just because three people expressed an opinion? Pull-eeze!

I think if we start down the slippery slope of judging fan content based on whether we like it or not, or feel it has a place in what we think the game should or should not be. Then yes. I fear that. And I think I have good reason too. This testing is not about whether or not you think it has a place in Cyan's shard or not based on your opinions of it being family-friendly or not. Thats not for you to decide Tai. You're testing isn't about judging content based on whether or not it has a place in Cyan's shard or not. You're testing is to see "Is it copyrighted. Are there glitches anywhere in it. Are there bugs that need to be addressed." and then report those so that they can be fixed. Ultimately commenting on your opinion of it having a place in MOULa is beyond the scope of this testing. You don't have a say in that. That's between the artist and the shard owner. Somehow the discussion of testing of the clothing already became a discussion on a single item in a package of fan content. Leaving aside that there's only one technical glitch with that piece of clothing. I mean that slippery slope, it just happened. And it was the first bit of fan content and the discussion was already attempted to be pushed in that direction. Do you not see that?

I guess I just wish Cyan had higher standards for what's considered a "wholesome family-friendly game," but I suppose that's old-fashioned thinking in this day and age.

Can you please tell me how it's not family-friendly so that I can fix it so that it is?