Fan Content On Minkata

[Ehren]

The problem is "Display." Many age authors feel that if there isn't a place to display a link beyond a simple Nexus room, then there's no reason to put things there.

Are you are talking about putting in things other than books/links? Is it really a goal to make it a place that has more functionality than just a Nexus? Puzzles and such would make more sense in the ages themselves. The Nexus would just be the way to get there.

I do like the idea of some kind of a more detailed library connected to the Nexus, (without any power boxes or puzzles though, I mean detailed in terms of graphic quality and design) I just don't like the idea of how hard it could be to design, and how much longer it would take.

Trying to aim too high could cause frustration until the project just kind of fizzles out.

[CalumTraveler]

The problem is "Display." Many age authors feel that if there isn't a place to display a link beyond a simple Nexus room, then there's no reason to put things there.

Are you are talking about putting in things other than books/links? Is it really a goal to make it a place that has more functionality than just a Nexus? Puzzles and such would make more sense in the ages themselves. The Nexus would just be the way to get there.

I do like the idea of some kind of a more detailed library connected to the Nexus, (without any power boxes or puzzles though, I mean detailed in terms of graphic quality and design) I just don't like the idea of how hard it could be to design, and how much longer it would take.

Trying to aim too high could cause frustration until the project just kind of fizzles out.

The only things I have mentioned in my initial notes are: "Nexus terminal, Library tower tunnels, small garden, and night sky." So it should be fairly simple. The power box idea was added in after I fell to the same misconception that we'd have a sizable reservoir of ages hidden inside on start.

The Nexus chamber was only added on when I realized that if we DID get to a point where we have tons of ages, people are going to want a terminal to fast-access ages, rather than run all the way to the top of a tower to use a book. "Cause of that, I think the terminal needs to be a base part of the age, put in right next to the Link in spot.

Also, I think people are thinking too big for the proposed idea, which is why I did a size comparison of my idea of the Library area to the Gahreesen well, in the concept art I'm posting next, which I already posted on MO forums. People are imagining something large and huge, when the idea I have is fair small in terms of build, but could be expanded to something huge at a later date.

Anyways, here's that concept art.

First off this round is the Tunnel distance and shape. I think I should have gotten this done in the other batch of art as well, might have cleared up some misconceptions.

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Second: Size. I don't think my previous descriptions showed the size properly. So here's the comparison to Gahreesen's link in well. Not too big, I don't think.

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Third: The 'doors'. I'm thinking maybe a different icon (maybe the finalized and settled upon Age Approved stamp?) in place of the book icon, but otherwise, they'd be similar to this, I think.

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Finally: The tunnels beyond.

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This is about it, I think, in terms of designing the age. It's not too big in diameter, but not small either. It's biggest asset will be it's height, and for the foreseeable future, that's not even going to be really high.

[JWPlatt]

The Nexus chamber was only added on when I realized that if we DID get to a point where we have tons of ages, people are going to want a terminal to fast-access ages, rather than run all the way to the top of a tower to use a book. "Cause of that, I think the terminal needs to be a base part of the age, put in right next to the Link in spot.

That's a really great, natural idea and good planning. Like a microfiche machine in a library. The books should be found and touched first, before they make it to the Nexus display. I would suggest an easel or an imager to fit the explorer age warning requirement. I would also like to see a seal designed and/or approved by the GoW used in every book and integrated with the age, nexus UI, easel and/or imager textures to clue us in on what it means.

[Ehren]

Thinking too big is about more than just the age's size, it's also about how complicated the programing is, right?

Now that I think about it. The library of user made books SHOULD be a separate age from the Nexus part. Think about having more than one person trying to use the same nexus machine. It is a lot less complicated if it is its own one-person-allowed instance like the regular Nexus we have now. (Just need a link to that nexus from that library and probably an available link back to the library from there.) Unless it was already planned as big single person only age instances? But then sharing the books would be a bit different...

Would the age books have the same giant share page like the library and museum books in Ae'gura? There really is a huge amount of things to be figured out for this. More details that have to be planned than one might realize at first!

[CalumTraveler]

Thinking too big is about more than just the age's size, it's also about how complicated the programing is, right?

Now that I think about it. The library of user made books SHOULD be a separate age from the Nexus part. Think about having more than one person trying to use the same nexus machine. It is a lot less complicated if it is its own one-person-allowed instance like the regular Nexus we have now. (Just need a link to that nexus from that library and probably an available link back to the library from there.) Unless it was already planned as big single person only age instances? But then sharing the books would be a bit different...

Would the age books have the same giant share page like the library and museum books in Ae'gura? There really is a huge amount of things to be figured out for this. More details that have to be planned than one might realize at first!

At the moment, these are all logistics to be thoroughly hashed out once the age is modeled and ready to be programmed. But in general, I'm thinking that it would be a private-share-able age, as an extension of the Relto Library. (Come on, let's face it. Even Cyan was going to have to make an extension age eventually. The Relto link shelf is just too small as it is.) 'Cause of that, they'd work like the Ahnonay books, needing no sharing, but still linking to the owner's instance of the resulting age. The reason for that is that the share page would instead be taken up by "Author Credits" as someone suggested way back at the beginning of the MO thread. Although we *COULD* make the Author Credits a separate note, akin to the various notes lying about in the game, and slap a giant share icon on the book. It just depends on what looks good for the age itself, I think.

The whole point of the "Nexus machine" is for personal quick use, such as if there are two tied fan ages that require quick linking between them (#wink wink #hint hint #personal plans), then the nexus would be the quicker route. But since you're hanging out with a friend, the Nexus Machine really wouldn't even be necessary, would it? Wouldn't you rather escort your friend to the right book to make sure they get through it properly? Then again, if there *were* two fan ages that needed people to quickly hop between them, wouldn't it be easier to do it with a friend anyways?

The programming for the Nexus would ideally be a straight copy of the Normal nexus's Personal Links folder, with an additional sorting folder for D'ni locations. But I'm no programmer, so some programmer out there: correct me on this if it's possible or not.

[Ehren]

Even with everyone having a personal copy of the library age, as long as they can take other people there with them, the Nexus would still need to be a separate age. The nexus doesn't have the design to handle other people and would definitely cause glitches if used. (going by the idea that, in a lot of ways, this nexus would mirror the normal one in how the programming and display work)

Can't assume what people will and won't try, like why would they necessarily want to escort a friend to the original book when logic would tell them they could open it with the Nexus machine and the friend should be able to use that book too?

Besides that, it would feel messy having both in the same place. It would be like a second copy of all the ages exist in the Nexus machine, two different kinds of hubs put together in the same age, but both hubs used for links to the same ages as each other. Having it be a different place to link would let each have its focus without feeling as weird. Does that kind of make sense?

[CalumTraveler]

Even with everyone having a personal copy of the library age, as long as they can take other people there with them, the Nexus would still need to be a separate age. The nexus doesn't have the design to handle other people and would definitely cause glitches if used. (going by the idea that, in a lot of ways, this nexus would mirror the normal one in how the programming and display work)

Can't assume what people will and won't try, like why would they necessarily want to escort a friend to the original book when logic would tell them they could open it with the Nexus machine and the friend should be able to use that book too?

Besides that, it would feel messy having both in the same place. It would be like a second copy of all the ages exist in the Nexus machine, two different kinds of hubs put together in the same age, but both hubs used for links to the same ages as each other. Having it be a different place to link would let each have its focus without feeling as weird. Does that kind of make sense?

Hmm, that's a fairly good point. But if we're going to be mucking around with the coding anyways, could we add a trigger zone that says "If 1 then Nexus works, if 2 then disabled" similar to the "Force camera view" boxes used in URU normally? Or maybe something akin to the life sensor in Ahnonay? Veering into the complicated territory here a bit, however. If we go back to the idea of a "Power box = power for the age" then we can tie it into that perhaps?

I think I'll need to do some testing on my own to see what does happen when two people are in the Nexus at once when it's used, and then see what I can think of to modify the idea a bit to counter. For all we know, nothing could happen if it's used when two people are there, in which case it wouldn't be a problem, I don't think. If the hologram not appearing on the display is an issue, then it wouldn't be the first time- Our KI's don't outwardly project a visible hologram to anyone but the user.

BUT: This could all be lamp-shaded by adding a billboard sign (Similar to the one RAWA wants for a fan age disclaimer) saying "Do not use nexus terminal for link sharing- use the physical books instead." Heek, we could borrow the poster boards used in the hood classrooms for both of those.

Still, though... Thanks for bringing this up. Gives me a bit to think about.

[JWPlatt]

Besides that, it would feel messy having both in the same place. It would be like a second copy of all the ages exist in the Nexus machine, two different kinds of hubs put together in the same age, but both hubs used for links to the same ages as each other. Having it be a different place to link would let each have its focus without feeling as weird. Does that kind of make sense?

Is it confusing to have a microfiche room in a library? Or an eBook reader on top of a bookshelf?

A shared Nexus might be like a game of Sardines, but the code is executing on the client and sending messages to the server. How is that different than each person concurrently using a separate instance from the server's point of view?

[Ehren]

A shared Nexus might be like a game of Sardines, but the code is executing on the client and sending messages to the server. How is that different than each person concurrently using a separate instance from the server's point of view?

Because then the server is also trying to synch you with the other person there? It isn't really designed to have someone else there messing with nexus buttons at the same time as you. Their own display would probably be different depending on what links they have. Could it end up getting confused about what is being selected? I think it would likely just crash the clients involved.

[Mac_Fife]

Yeah, on a shared instance you'd need to have "blocking" so that only one person could be using the UI at a time and that can be annoying. There are lots places already where you can (if it's busy) end up with people queing to use something and it can confuse new players. In something like a "fan nexus" (or any other equivalent "hub") you'll inevitably get a lot of interest whenever anything gets added and then frustrated players waiting to use the books.